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[–]raven9[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Didn't we do this a year and a half ago? The similarities of the inserts to HIV are not unique to HIV-1, and sit in many viruses.

No we didn't. I have shown here two versions of the same SARS-CoV-2 virus genome. One with 4 sequences that match HIV-1 the other has 5 sequences that match HIV and furthermore, those sequences were all from different strains of HIV-1. It is impossible for that to happen naturally.

[–]ActuallyNot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

They match HIV-1 but they also match dozens of other viruses, and are common in many mammalian cells.

They're just common sequences.

It is perfectly possible for an RNA virus to pick up sequences of RNA from inside the cell that they reproduce in. That's the normal way they evolve.

[–]raven9[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

No. It cannot happen naturally. Sure you can find one of those same sequences randomly here and there in other organisms but until 2019 you would only find all 4 in HIV. The only way a virus can aquire extra sequences from another virus is by recombination. That requires both virus infect the same cell at the same time. HIV and SARS cannot do that. Firstly they bind to different receptors on different cell types. Secondly the first 4 new sequences were from 4 different HIV genomes. Thirdly recombination would affect the entire genome not just the spike. Forthly when a second version of the SARS-CoV-2 virus shows up and it has a 5th sequence that also matches a sequence from HIV-1 and it is 28 nucleotides long there can no longer be any pretense. It was done in a lab just like nobel prize winning virologist Luc Montagnier said it was.

[–]ActuallyNot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Yes. It regularly happens naturally.

Sure you can find one of those same sequences randomly here and there in other organisms but until 2019 you would only find all 4 in HIV.

The insertions probably occurred independently.

In addition, phylogenetic inferences carried out in the vicinity of the insertions (Fig. 5) show that the four insertions found in SARS-CoV-2 cover different sub-groups of coronavirus strains, suggesting that they occurred independently at different times of coronavirus diversification. In particular, the first three insertions are observed in virus sequences isolated not only from human and bats (RaTG13), but also from pangolins from China or Malaysia. The hypothesis that these insertions are the result of recent experimental manipulations would not explain the presence of these sequences in several virus isolates from different species, collected at different locations, especially since these insertions occurred at different times during the evolution of these virus strains. - Source

Secondly the first 4 new sequences were from 4 different HIV genomes.

Yeah, but the first 3 are also from viruses in bats and pangolins. So those insertions could have happened sequentially and long before the jump to humans.

And HIV as a source of the inserts is not supported by the statistical analysis (Fig 5 of the paper above)

Thirdly recombination would affect the entire genome not just the spike.

Not necessarily. But certainly the evidence is that these particular inserts did not occur at once. So I agree that recombination is unlikely. Not least because without the fourth of those inserts, the virus wouldn't infect humans very well at all, so would not be in the same animal as human HIV, much less the same cell, which, as you point out, is also unlikely.

Forthly when a second version of the SARS-CoV-2 virus shows up and it has a 5th sequence that also matches a sequence from HIV-1 and it is 28 nucleotides long there can no longer be any pretense.

That's not a slam-dunk. What matters is how often that sequence is seen in other viruses or RNA sequences that might by hanging around a human or animal cell.

It was done in a lab just like nobel prize winning virologist Luc Montagnier said it was.

That's not impossible. But Montagnier's (off the cuff) analysis is refuted by the statistics in the linked paper, described above. If you look at the entire database of viral sequences, the statistics don't imply HIV-1 as a source.

[–]raven9[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Please I am not going to waste my time arguing with you shills and liars. Go back to reddit. You seem to forget this was the SARS spike protein. SARS infected barely 8000 people. It did not even have time to gain any natural mutations.

[–]ActuallyNot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Please I am not going to waste my time arguing with you shills and liars.

Can you point out the lie?

Did you read the source I linked to?

Do you see that's it's a peer reviewed scholarly paper.

I didn't intentionally misrepresent it, but please point out where I lie about it, and I will correct the post.

You seem to forget this was the SARS spike protein.

What makes you think that?

SARS infected barely 8000 people. It did not even have time to gain any natural mutations.

The source of SARS-CoV-2 (Which, in case you're confused is the COVID-19 virus), mutated in order to jump to humans from bats, via some intermediary that has not been identified, but it might have gone via pangolins.

Those inserts you're talking about would have been part of that process.