Being a lesbian in this social climate makes me feel so alone.

submitted by sickofit from self.Lesbians

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[–][deleted] 27 insightful - 3 fun27 insightful - 2 fun28 insightful - 3 fun -  (44 children)

I’ve become rather unpopular for being like “you’re not a lesbian” and “you’re friend is not a lesbian” to people’s faces who are sleeping with men and call themselves lesbians, or to people who have a “lesbian friend” that occasionally fucks guys. I always take the opportunity to correct the people who believe that shit about their friends, especially. The “lesbians” who fuck men will eventually disappear into straight relationships so that issue will take care of itself. But MAN, are they ever annoying

[–]FrostyNugs 15 insightful - 3 fun15 insightful - 2 fun16 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

This! If you say that not fitting the fucking definition of a label means that someone does not fall under that label, people act like you just proposed starting a fire in an orphanage or some shit. Fucking queer theory UwU bullshit, "But I feeeel like lesbian suits me best."

[–][deleted] 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

LOOOOOOL. Imagine arbitrarily assigning meanings to surgical terms?

Also a label shouldn’t really be about your feeling as much as your behaviour, because people say any number of things and then behave opposite

[–]FrostyNugs 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The TQ+ is already arbitrarily assigning meanings to anatomical terms, though. Just look at all the mtfs calling referring to their estrogen-shrunken dicks as clits.

[–][deleted]  (7 children)

[deleted]

    [–][deleted] 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

    I swear, sometimes men are the only people who understand not wanting to fuck men. Figures this woman only responded to a man telling her it was uncool, too.

    The last time a friend was all “my lesbian friend sometimes fucks guys when....” I cut him off before he could even finish and was like “she’s not a lesbian. No. She’s not. Yeah IDGAF what she says.”

    I just don’t have patience for that shit anymore and i don’t want the sordid details of these fucked up women’s lives, either, you know? Like spare me your non-lesbian friend’s cognitive dissonance and let her know lesbians and bisexuals are sick of her shit.

    [–]sickofit[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

    how did he react? i'm going to start handling it like you because i can't take it anymore either.

    [–][deleted] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

    Most guys don’t argue with you, women do. If you tell a guy to straight up shut his mouth and he’s wrong, to his face, he generally looks either surprised or sheepish or both. Lol. Lots of men literally seem clueless about all this stuff. I had a friend who thought hookers enjoy fucking johns.

    [–][deleted]  (2 children)

    [deleted]

      [–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

      I’m not usually rude and angry about it, i just state the fact that lesbians don’t sleep with men, and if someone believes in sexual orientation being fluid they clearly don’t believe homosexuality or heterosexuality exists, and see sexual orientation as literally a phase. Sexual “fluidity” is just a reframing of the idea that lesbians are going through a “phase” which will wear off. Some bisexuals go through phases (bi cycle), where they believe themselves to be lesbian, I suppose. But that’s not our problem. Women who are literally attracted to men and women are not lesbians.

      Don’t even bother arguing with them, just say that women who identify as lesbians and continue to seek sex with men are not lesbians. Period. It’s that simple. Should be easy for them to digest. Don’t let people draw you into some kind of micro bullshit argument about it

      [–]sickofit[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      I’m going to steal the phrasing of that first paragraph. Thanks!

      [–]uroborosjohnson 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      That is infuriating

      [–]carrotcake 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (23 children)

      When I hadn't admitted to myself that I was a lesbian the presence of this one friend of mine would always irritate me so much. I didn't feel any sexual attraction to men and just because I admired them I thought I was bisexual and this woman was telling to my face that she liked fucking and kissing guys and that she did it for fun and how hot men were but she was a lesbian... No wonder why I was so annoyed. I told her so many times that she isn't a lesbian. Weirdly enough I'm kinda scared of telling her that I'm actually a lesbian. I'm worried that she'll dismiss me. She's a good friend besides that.

      [–][deleted] 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (20 children)

      Are you 18-25? Because I am seeing a disturbing amount of younger lesbians being told by other young women that lesbians fuck males (and not even trans id people), like random straight dudes with no gender anything. If that is what the young women are facing now then I really don’t envy them. In my generation of LGB youth, women would think you were actually nuts for saying you’re a lesbian who sleeps with men. This only started to really become noticeable after 2010. Sure, there were bisexual women who said they met their “one” man, but bisexual women i knew never said they were straight up lesbians while fucking guys because we ALL know that is total garbage

      [–]sickofit[S] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

      I’m 18-25 and ive faced this. you're right that its mostly something happening with younger women. It’s happening enough that im seeing a shift in straight people where some of them used to think that only idiots would say they're lesbian while sleeping with men, but now they think that lesbians just like men too because their """lesbian""" friend does. The """lesbians""" who do this usually go out of their way to "educate" straight people about how lesbians are fluid and that's why they hooked up with billy last week. It’s spreading homophobia towards us, because now some people are treating us like we're just closed minded because we're not "fluid" like the other """"lesbians"""".

      I’ve tried talking more openly about it, especially with guys. Actually, a while ago this happened to me and i just sort of "shot the shit" (idk if saying this right, worked night shift...) with the guy. He said he had hooked up with two "lesbians" before, repeatedly. I just told him we see girls like that in the gay community and they're so annoying that some of them even marry a guy and keep saying they're lesbians. He ended up talking about it with me casually and being like "I know right? they're always saying lesbian, not bi, no matter how many times we sleep with each other" and we both kinda bonded over saying they're dumb. He thought the stories i had about the things girls like this in the gay community say were funny.

      [–][deleted] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

      I hope these women realise that they are creating a lot of problems for lesbians. Sadly, I think women like that say they are lesbians to attract men to sleep with but have an excuse to not date them. They should really work out their intimacy issues etc in some other way and leave lesbians out of it, because it’s REALLY REALLY not being a “woman who loves women” to call yourself a lesbian and keep fucking men, especially since they know how much more of a lesbian fetish they are promoting among random straight people who think they can rent a dyke for the weekend

      [–]sickofit[S] 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

      In my experience, there's a few types of women who do this... I never thought about wanting to not appear "slutty" while sleeping around as a reason but i think that's a reason too. Some other ones i see a lot:

      • Started identifying as lesbian at a really young age (like 12-14) and became attached to the idea. So now when they sleep with men they try to hold on to that identity

      • Know they're bisexual but say that they vastly prefer women to men, so they pinky promise themselves that they'll stick with women and start calling themselves lesbians. But if you're bisexual, you are attracted to men anyway, and no matter what you pinky promise if you meet some guy who's your dream boy you aren't going to ditch him to be loyal to your pretend lesbianism. But they try to hold on as long as they can. They also speak on lesbian issues a lot but since they’re not actually lesbians their perspective usually just sounds like a typical bi woman.

      • Attention-seeking bi and straight girls who know that guys think its hot to sleep with a lesbian. Or sometimes trying to look like they're above the patriarchy or a very woke lesbian who accepts all genders.

      • Girls who like the "lesbian image". so they like to think of themselves as these tough, sexy butches or something. I think the tendency to portray lesbians as more independent, strong and smart than straight and bi women in the media is part of this too...

      • Girls who are homophobic and dont think lesbians really exist anyway, so they assume every other lesbian also likes men.

      [–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

      Those sound accurate.

      Also, I think some women are just self-absorbed and believe their experience of sexuality is the same as everyone else’s, just because they only have room for their own experience inside themselves. It’s a very immature developmental stage that some of these women got stunted at, and honestly their orientation is probably the least of their problems.

      [–]sickofit[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      Yeah I see that a lot with the “fluid” people. They usually do it to women though, they leave the men alone

      [–]carrotcake 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

      That's sooo disappointing. They can't see that they are contributing to men dismissing our sexuality?

      [–]sickofit[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      In my experience, they know, they just don’t care. Plus it’s not just men who dismiss our sexuality, women do too. A lot of these girls are homophobic.

      [–]blabla99 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

      don't really believe in this guy who says he has sex with lesbians (already one is hard to believe but two ...) there are many who lie to be able to sleep with you or to brag, hell you even men who claim to be lesbians, there are far too many men with the fantasy of converting a lesbian

      [–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      Yeah a lot of men can't separate their fantasies from reality. I mean, just look at r/AL...

      [–]sickofit[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

      Don’t call them lesbians. They didn't sleep with a lesbian, they slept with a lying bi woman. There are a lot of those. sure some men are lying but a lot are not. If you dont believe it, you can even go onto any of the lesbian or bisexual subreddits and see the sheer number of bisexuals who call themselves lesbians. There are tons of them and they will happily explain how sure, they hooked up with three men last week, but they're totally "valid" as a lesbian. Some of them are even happily dating or married to men but will announce that they're lesbians at every opportunity. Most of them know that they're bisexual but choose to not say that and will get mad if you say there's something wrong with that. At some point these women need to be held accountable and not just handwaved away each time.

      [–][deleted] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

      Guys who talk about sleeping with lesbians are ridiculous. If she's willingly sleeping with you, how is she a lesbian? mental gymnastics... they just don't think. They enjoy idea of sleeping with a lesbian so much that they push all logic to the back of their minds (or they never had any to begin with).

      And yeah, I detest the lying bi women even more than the lying men. Men think that they can convert us, but the lying bi women are the one's who "confirm" it. Also, the fact that these women want to use their fake lesbianism to turn on men/ fulfill men's porn fantasies is just so blasphemous to me! They are disgusting.

      [–]sickofit[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      LOL tell me about it. It’s really frustrating because you see it all the time.

      On the other hand... these are straight people. They are not familiar with lgbtlaksdjf identity politics and what goes on in the community. The vast majority of straight people are not going to question what a "lesbian" says lesbians are like. Similarly, if some "gay man" says that its normal for gay men to like fucking women in the butt too, most straight people are going to listen. Because this person is claiming to be a representative of that group. Thd "queer theory" explanations are very confusing even for people who are in the community, and they're constantly changing. Most straight people do not have the tools or the gall to question a self-proclaimed gay person on what being gay is about. Most people dont assume the people they hang out with are liars.

      I agree with you on the bi women but i think we need to reframe the conversation a bit. Men are not the only people who dont believe that lesbians exist. Women believe the exact same thing just as often as the men do, the only difference is that they are less likely to try to prey on that (though they do that sometimes too). These women are just a subset of homophobic women. They dont just enable the "lesbians dont exist" group, they are part of that group too. If they weren't, they wouldn't think that women who like men (like themselves) are lesbians or that lesbians are "fluid".

      [–]blabla99 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

      especially since they indirectly participate in corrective rapes by making believe that they are "lesbians" who have found the right guy, these womens are ingnoble

      [–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      Yeah and sometimes I wonder if they get some kind of sick pleasure from advocating for corrective rapes. There's TONS of articles with titles like "I used to be a lesbian" I mean wtf? Why do these bi women love to tell the world about how they "used to be lesbians?" Like, they will go out of there way to speak about it, completely unprompted. I always wonder about the motive behind that. Are they seriously that thirsty for male attention and approval that they will step all over lesbians/lesbianism to get it? Apparently so.

      [–]blabla99 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

      I said most of these guys are lying, and no i don't consider them lesbians but bisexual lesbophobic women sorry I just forgot to put the "" in lesbian

      [–]sickofit[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      Sorry it’s okay I just misunderstood it

      [–]carrotcake 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

      Yes! We both are from 21-25 . I'm not sure about her age but she isn't older than 25. You're completely right. I cannot imagine 30+ women saying this sort of shit.

      [–][deleted] 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

      If anyone said that to me I would laugh before I realise they were serious and then I would just be confused and stare, then be pissed lol

      [–]sickofit[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

      The more you tolerate it from her, the more you further it. We have to do something, not just complain in an echo chamber. Your friend isn’t just a girl who’s making it easier for the evil men to harass lesbians, she’s a homophobe and harasser herself

      [–]carrotcake 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      The thing is I've told her she's not a lesbian so many times. She won't change the way she behaves because she's so stubborn. A bisexual friend of mine has talked to her about this too. In this case I don't really have anything to do. But I agree with you, we have to do something. Complaining here won't change anything.

      [–]Skipdip 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

      That is really irritating. Bi lesbians are the worst. Because they erase actual lesbians, but won’t stand for you “telling them how they identify”. I say, say you are a lesbian which means a female homosexual. You were born that way and it means you have no attraction to males. Just have that lesbian confidence and don’t stand for her shit but don’t be pushy. She’ll get the message eventually.

      [–]carrotcake 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      Thank you! I'll grab my lesbian confidence and just do it lmao

      [–]Skipdip 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

      I actually don’t totally agree with this. The pressure is higher than ever to have a “fluid” sexuality. I have several friends who I think are lesbians who voluntarily have sex with men because they seem to feel like they should. Hell, I was going to try hooking up with men (prior to coming to terms with my lesbianism). They clearly do not enjoy it very much. “I mean it’s alright... he’s just such a boy” or even my gf who has slept with like 20 men and tells me “I get bored, I definitely have a parts preference for vagina”. I ask her if she was attracted to any of the men she was in relationships with and she says “not really”. And a lot of the men she was fucking were random old men so she would have no attachment to them. She looses her shit when we are having sex. She almost cums just by putting her fingers in my vagina lol. She tells me how much more she likes a strap on on me than a dick on a guy and she is repulsed by semen.

      Of course there needs to be gate keeping for lesbianism because it is a real thing. But these days with lesbophobia and queer ideology, this is more common than you’d think. My friend recently had sex with a trans man and said longingly “it was nice to have sex with a vagina again”. It’s definitely possible that they are genuinely bisexual, but I have my doubts. On the other hand I have a friend who is a proud lesbian but she is in love with a trans woman, and loves having sex with trans women. She, I actually do think must be bi.

      On some level we have to admit that you don’t really have to be sexually attracted to the thing that is getting you off. I am not sexually attracted to my vibrator 😉

      [–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

      Yeah but a vibrator is not even close to the same as a person. I completely disagree with that last statement, i don’t think there is any level i would need to admit that because a person is not a “thing.” That’s creepy as hell. Gross.

      If people enjoy having disembodied and dissociative sex with people whose bodies they are not attracted to, that’s an entirely different issue and is disturbing in itself, imo. Definitely nothing I could ever manage

      If someone is fucked up enough to be sleeping with dudes consensually when they hate it, or enjoying it and calling themselves lesbians, it’s pretty obvious that those women have too many issues to have a clear idea of what their actual orientation. If you like sex with men, and pursue it, you’re bi. It’s pretty simple. I believe a lot of women who call themselves lesbians are doing that, but that does not make them lesbians just because it wasn’t that great. Lol

      [–]Skipdip 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

      Yeah well I’m not the expert. I had disassociative sex with women primarily (with a man once) before getting the help that I needed for my attachment trauma.

      But I do think you’re being a little harsh/black and white. My sister who is straight had a girlfriend for two years and managed to have some sort of sex (my impression is that she was a pillow princess). She wasn’t “attracted” perse to the body of her girlfriend, but she loved her as a person and as her best friend. Maybe you would say my sister is bi... but she doesn’t even call herself bi. She is firm that she needs the D. The sex she and her gf were having was not “disembodied disassociative” sex. Not in the purest sense anyway.

      Also how do u think so many late bloomers put up with it with husbands for many years.

      [–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

      I don’t think a lot of late bloomers who have had husbands for 10 years ARE lesbians. I can’t say for sure, because I am not them, which is true about ANYONE.

      I’m not even touching that story about your sister. Omg. I would not say she was bi, tho.

      And trauma complicates everything.

      If you think I am being harsh or black and white, that’s fine.

      [–]Skipdip 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

      I don’t know, I just think it is harmful to put arbitrary gates up on what kinds of experiences lesbian women can have. Lesbians have enough struggle, we already have the highest coming out age of any LGB. Late bloomer lesbians definitely exist.

      The purpose of good gatekeeping should be to filter out people who are not actual lesbians, not to force actual lesbians to conform to certain expectations. I feel like you’re approaching it with a fear mentality because you don’t want non-lesbians slipping through and appropriating our label. I totally get that. But I feel like there are many dimensions of some lesbian experiences that you don’t seem to really understand or relate to. That doesn’t make them not dimensions of the lesbian experience. At the end of the day, there is nothing to be afraid of, lesbians exist as we always have and always will. Even if we fuck 10,000 men.

      And don’t you hate on my sister!

      [–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

      We just have different opinions on what a lesbian is, it’s fine. My opinion and your opinion don’t actually keep anyone from coming out. I’ve just been around a long time and known hundreds of lesbians, my generation sounds like it’s pretty different than yours. Whatever. There is a pretty standard trajectory for most lesbians (Apart from asexual lesbians) who come out, in my own experience of the community over time, there will be some outliers, but not as many as say they are lesbians while not actually being lesbians. It honestly seems like there are a lot more women who are truly not lesbians that are calling themselves such, and most are on tumblr.

      Whether or not we disagree on the topic won’t change the amount of legit lesbians in the world. If someone is so unsure of themselves that they let some women gatekeeping decide their orientation they wouldn’t make it as a dyke anyway. It’s a moot point.

      Also you’re the one who brought up your sister. I didn’t hate on her, I’m not touching on that whole thing.

      I see you share things and then get upset with people when they don’t respond exactly the way you want. This has happened over and over on this sub in conversations where you discuss experiences that are unrelatable, and honestly pretty gross, to many lesbians and receive pushback. If people keep pushing back then maybe you should reflect on why. You’re not going to convince me that women who enjoy fucking men are lesbians. Or find it “okay” or any of that. I don’t think it’s close-minded to think that women who spend many years willingly having lots of sex with men (who are not in some extremely oppressive situation) are lesbians. It’s possible, but very very unlikely. If they like women they are more likely to be bi, in my opinion. The way you are qualifying lesbian there would be no actual definition for it

      [–]Skipdip 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

      I was saying that jokingly about my sister but I guess it didn’t come across.

      I’m not saying that women who enjoy fucking men are lesbians. But I’m saying there are lesbians who have trauma who do fuck men and that doesn’t necessarily determine their sexual orientation.

      Late bloomer lesbians really seem to exist, I am not the expert on this topic, but it makes sense to me. There is such thing as some fluidity within the categories. So maybe that is a definition difference. I use my sister as an example because she is straight but has some fluidity. Not enough to make her bi... and you agree with this. So why is it so hard to believe that this could exist on the lesbian side as well. I kind of do wish you would get into this because as I see it is does matter.

      I feel like you really don’t understand what this generation of lesbians is going through and it would be nice if you had more empathy for us. I don’t think it’s fair to say that this is happening in all of my posts. This has happened with this one, and then with the one where I shared my story. And a lot of the people who had knee jerk reactions to that one came around when I clarified certain things. It has been a real struggle for me to come to terms with my sexuality given my trauma and then this QT shit on top of it. As an elder in the lesbian community (and I’m using that term loosely) it would be nice if you could be a bit more understanding. Really the only person I have conflict with on here is you.

      [–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

      I understand you completely I just completely disagree. Let it go. People are allowed to feel you are wrong. Fluid is bisexual. Get over it. God.

      [–]Skipdip 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      Fine think what you want