Do bisexuals have it harder?

submitted by Skipdip from (self.Lesbians)

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[–][deleted]  (6 children)

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    [–]yayblueberries 16 insightful - 2 fun16 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

    I was one of very few lesbians at a large LGBTQAAA_&*#$&#@ Support Group and I got treated like I didn't belong there. I'm sure the transfolk felt I had it easier than them because I didn't have to deal with all of their issues, which they are right about, and the gay men there, who were a bit older, felt like they were the ones who started the entire LGBTQ+ everything. So many references to the 80s and what they had to deal with, despite that gays have had to deal with bullshit well before that. I'm glad I left, never really felt more excluded from anything in my life. They wouldn't even let me have a voice in that group.

    [–]florasis 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    Yeah, we don't really belong there, despite our name being first in the letter soup

    [–]VioletRemi 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Nowadays we are the last ones, as it seems like counting and focus starts from the end.

    [–]southpaw 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    Did they not let you talk or did they cut you off and not listen? You are not the first person I've heard of going to a LGBTQ+ event and being excluded. I knew an older gay man who went to one and was one of the few homosexuals there and he felt rather excluded. In his case the crowd was much younger. I'm sorry that happened.

    [–]yayblueberries 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

    I was interrupted the first time, and then raised my hand and was ignored. I also tried talking about this to the woman running this thing after, and was treated like I was being annoying. I would have fought harder to have a voice, but I that town's Pride was also a joke, nothing but a bunch of crappy businesses trying to sell their garbage and no celebration at all. Just marketing to take money from gay and trans folk. I don't live there anymore because the entire town this was in has all sorts of ridiculous social problems anyway (increasingly huge gentrification and active fighting against any attempts to put in affordable housing despite that low wage people are the actual people who keep the town going, being one).

    [–]oofreesouloo 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Preach

    [–]Skipdip[S] 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    My personal feeling is that it isn’t a competition and shouldn’t be. However my experience is currently in this “queer” paradigm, bisexual women are the ones most likely to not believe in homosexuality. I find this very painful, because they sometimes even call themselves lesbians, but have sex with TIM. They can relate to the fallacious idea that sexuality is fluid, because it is fluid for bisexuals. It can be hard for them to sympathize with mono sexuals. The other thing is that many homosexuals come out initially as bisexual due to homophobia particularly internalized homophobia. So possibly people with greater degrees of internalized homophobia and trauma around sexuality are more likely both to self harm, and to identify as bisexual. Some of these theories could probably be verified by closer analysis of the data. I am not a data analyst, however.

    [–]reluctant_commenter 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    They can relate to the fallacious idea that sexuality is fluid, because it is fluid for bisexuals. It can be hard for them to sympathize with mono sexuals.

    Agreed. I have also heard of the concept of "monosexual privilege" which seems extremely reductive and backwards to me. There are fewer LG, than B. When "lesbian" and even "gay" are so be heavily stigmatized anyway, how much privilege do I really have over a bisexual?? Homophobic people hate all LGB.

    The other thing is that many homosexuals come out initially as bisexual due to homophobia particularly internalized homophobia. So possibly people with greater degrees of internalized homophobia and trauma around sexuality are more likely both to self harm, and to identify as bisexual.

    Why, hello. This was me :)

    Now I really want to see if there are more studies on this. I'll take a look.

    [–]Gearbeta 12 insightful - 2 fun12 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

    Now, I'm not denying that lesbians are oppressed, this isn't a linear thing. While gay men are men and have privilege related to that, they also still suffer the most hate crimes of any other lgbt group.(https://ucr.fbi.gov/hate-crime/2017/tables/table-1.xls) As for bisexuals, I managed to find the article they were talking about (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0165032720325489) and I'm not sure what to think about this. I mean, mental health isn't always a good indicator of how hard someone has it, I mean, straight white middle aged middle class men have high suicide rates but they aren't systematically oppressed. And again I don't think oppression olympics is productive in any way, after all thats how we get people shouting constantly about "black trans women" but then not giving a shit about anyone else because they're just soooo privileged compared to black trans women

    [–]Skipdip[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Beautiful response. Thank you. And thanks for posting the article. Yes gay men suffer the most hate crimes which makes sense as femininity in men is perhaps reviled by patriarchy most of all. It is also the reason there is more violence against transwomen than transmen. This is a men’s issue that I hope the men’s rights people take up.

    [–]reluctant_commenter 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    I also kind of wonder.. This is obviously not all or even most bisexuals. But..

    There are a few mental illnesses in which people struggle hugely with identity, and where it is common for people to actually change their sexual orientation label frequently.

    Those mental illnesses also have higher rates of self-harm, suicidal impulses, etc.

    I kind of wonder if this is part of where the higher rates of negative outcomes among bisexuals, are coming from.

    [–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Very likely.

    [–]Natalia 11 insightful - 4 fun11 insightful - 3 fun12 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

    Have most bisexuals ever been in a proper same-sex relationship? Im including everyone that falls under their spectrum in this question.

    Im sure bisexuals that have preferences towards the same sex have it hard, but the straight leaning ones that seem to make up the majority....nah

    Its not a bad thing, its just different.

    [–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Most have not, or are unlikely to continue. This is true. Sometimes hypersexuality is linked to different disorders and i don’t know if they account for that when they associate poor mental health with oppression from being bisexual, as if the oppression itself causes everything

    [–]RedditHatesLesbians 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    Am lesbian. Have struggled with self harm.

    [–]SaidOverRed 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Makes sense. Also not sure why the OP is asking us. We are exclusionary here, so we are the wrong people to ask. Or atleast, we are the wrong place to only ask. No sure if there's a /s/bisexual yet. Not my cup of tea.

    [–][deleted] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    I think infighting amongst the LGB letters is largely silly and it's going to vary widely based on personal, local, national, or global factors. Globally, I would assume gay men absolutely have it the toughest of the three letters, but a gay man living on the Upper West Side using Iran's capital punishment policies to claim he's more oppressed than a lesbian from a small rural town would strike me as very unfair.

    And as someone who was a cutter in my teens and early 20s, it's a poor metric for who has it the hardest. I had and have a relatively comfortable life compared to most, yet I still self injured.

    [–]Lessom 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

    I’m not sure what arguing who has the hardest in the LGB community is going to achieve?

    [–]TheLesbean 7 insightful - 4 fun7 insightful - 3 fun8 insightful - 4 fun -  (4 children)

    This person isn’t a lesbian. SURPRISE. Anyone else notice the large influx of people joining Lesbians? Don’t forget the number of trolls that were banned.

    [–]oofreesouloo 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    I honestly don't understand why non-lesbian people lol won't leave lesbians alone jeeeeez

    [–]Gearbeta 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

    Yeah, we've definitely had some trolls lately. The one about lesbians having male friends, the one just now about meth and dudes and whatever else I suspect was a troll thread as well.

    [–]reluctant_commenter 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Wait, why do you think that? I looked back in their post history and this person has been commenting in s/Lesbians for a while. Do you think they are just faking it or something?

    [–]Lessom 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    I’m confused do you mean me or the person who posted this?

    [–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Who cares who supposedly has it harder? I think it's more important to focus on the fact that LGB people are all oppressed for the characteristic we all share, which is being same-sex attracted. Though the L, G, and B have unique experiences compared to one another we can still easily relate because of the hate and discrimination targeted at us for not being heterosexual.

    [–]CJLez 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    If we're talking about physical safety then worldwide I'd say gay men are more oppressed purely due to the fact that there is still the death penalty for male homosexuality in many countries where female homosexuality is usually punished with 'only' prison time.

    If we're comparing people in the 'Western' world then I think that every letter has it's ups and it's downs in a broad sense. I prefer to judge people on an individual basis though - things such as race, religion, mental/physical health, access to resources and, esspecially, money, plays such a huge part in whether person A is more oppressed than person B (for instance, a lesbian from the upper east side probably has an easier and 'less oppressed' life than an impoverished gay, or even straight, man in a trailer park does) so I don't see the point in trying to make broad generalisations and arguing about who has it hardest, hard, easier and easiest.

    [–]reluctant_commenter 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

    I think anyone who turns these issues into a competition of "who has it harder" is doing it wrong.

    I personally am inclined to belief that if bisexuals do have greater rates of negative outcomes (self-harm, suicidal ideation, etc.), that it is probably largely related to the fact that far more of them are in the closet. Not necessarily that there is a greater stigma on being bisexual.

    Happy to be proven wrong. That is part of my issue with these statistics though, is that they are often taken to mean "bisexuals have it the hardest" when really they might ACTUALLY mean, "bisexuals need the most help with coming out of the closet" or some other conclusion that has a little more nuance..

    [–]TalerTest 8 insightful - 4 fun8 insightful - 3 fun9 insightful - 4 fun -  (4 children)

    "bisexuals need the most help with coming out of the closet"

    Do they? Are you sure?

    [–]reluctant_commenter 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

    That's a good question. I am going off of prevalence rates here, so what I meant was: "More bisexuals are in the closet, so more of them need support coming out."

    However, it may be that it is harder for lesbians in the closet to come out, even though there are fewer lesbians in the closet.

    edit: prevalence of being in the closet, has been measured in a variety of surveys and research literature. If you think there is something wrong with their methodology though, it is worth discussing.

    Also.. No, I am not sure, as I said in my writing. I said that "bisexuals need the most help coming out of the closet" is ONE possible conclusion.

    That is part of my issue with these statistics though, is that they are often taken to mean "bisexuals have it the hardest" when really they might ACTUALLY mean, "bisexuals need the most help with coming out of the closet" or some other conclusion that has a little more nuance..

    [–]TalerTest 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    My questions were a little facetious. Obviously bisexuals don't need the most help with coming out of the closet. tbh I have controversial opinions when it comes to this. I wish bisexual women would stay in the closet unless they are actually interested in pursuing same-sex relationships. Like bisexual men.

    [–]reluctant_commenter 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    I wish bisexual women would stay in the closet unless they are actually interested in pursuing same-sex relationships. Like bisexual men.

    Whoa. That is controversial, lol.

    I think if a bisexual person wants to stay in the closet, they should be able to. But many do not want to be in the closet, and circumstances force them to be otherwise, in which case-- that is unfair that they are stuck in the closet. E.g. a girl in the closet who had a secret girlfriend but also is attracted to boys, and her parents are homophobic.

    bisexuals don't need the most help with coming out of the closet.

    I personally am not convinced of this, like I said, but like I said I haven't seen tons of evidence either way. I just know that there are MORE of them in the closet.

    edit: Out of curiosity, why do you think bisexuals should stay in the closet..?

    [–]TalerTest 9 insightful - 3 fun9 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

    I think the bisexuals who are only interested in pursuing heterosexual relationships (so, the majority of them) don't need to come out of the closet. Why does everyone need to know that they are attracted to the same sex if they are never going to be with the same sex?

    Also, I've noticed a trend of het-partnered bi women swarming into lesbian spaces like locusts so they can talk over/for lesbians and make everything about them and their issues with men or their "comphet" or whatever. Just yesterday I saw a bisexual woman saying that lesbians like penises but not men. I don't know why she thinks she's qualified to make such statements.

    many do not want to be in the closet

    I know. There's a bisexual celebrity or teenager springing out the closet every 5 minutes. They clearly don't want to be in there.

    a girl in the closet who had a secret girlfriend but also is attracted to boys, and her parents are homophobic.

    That has nothing to do with her bisexuality and everything to do with homophobia.

    [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Being straight is not so popular anymore among young people so i don’t imagine its hard to come out as bi anymore.

    [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    No