LifestyleDoes anyone have any suggestions for how to not feel so depressed about all this?

submitted by reluctant_commenter from self.LGBDropTheT

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[–]reluctant_commenter[S] 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Thanks for all your suggestions. I really appreciate it.

Realize that in a culture of fear and censorship you don't actually know how isolated you are. I don't say this to dismiss the isolation you feel; I feel it sometimes too. But what is more likely? That everyone you know believes men can be women, or that people fear the repercussions of speaking out? Related to that, I don't know if you're following the Lia Thomas situation but it seems to be the straw that broke the camel's back regarding men in women's sports. And that's only because someone had the courage to protest, inspiring many others to do the same. Courage begets courage.

You're absolutely right. In a similar vein, I just saw Jules's post from a few days ago. I have not been following at all, no. I'll take a look.

Additionally, learn to recognize the common shill tactics that bad actors use to divide communities and drive users away from forums. (This is what I believe happened to s/Lesbians btw)

Great resources, thanks! Interesting... I didn't realize there might be anything that severe going on. What on earth could people possibly want from such a tiny community? But I guess I underestimate the drive of sheer narcissism. Maybe I'll go back and read through some of the old posts and try to identify some of these patterns... that sounds like a good exercise. (You could even suggest it to the other people on that sub, if they don't hate gay people too much to try it, lol.)

If you need mental health counseling, seek out older therapists. They will help tether you to reality.

I'm lucky to have finally found a solid therapist, but actually one of the ones I tried before, an older woman, was so deep into the trans doctrine that she ran workshops aimed at celebrating "trans children." I didn't realize until long after I left working with her that that was a red flag. (She had other concerning behaviors as a therapist that were unrelated to anything about the transgender movement.)

Watch LGB movies/shows that ignore the trans. There's actually tons of it. Letterboxd is a good resource.

I'll take a look, thanks. Do you have any particular recommendations? I liked Imagine Me & You, but I don't know how many movies there are like that. I would really like to avoid movies that have (non-trans) homophobic stereotypes in them.

-At the risk of veering off topic, I'll close by saying that we are in a crisis that encompasses much more than the gender insanity. That's some shit luck for us but it also gives us the opportunity to act heroically in whatever ways we can. Every crisis produces heroes. Take pride in that.

I appreciate your sense of perspective and scale. :) Yes, that's true, it does seem like these patterns common to transgender ideology keep popping up elsewhere in many other contexts and topics, too. Funny... now that's a revival of the real meaning of the word "pride," the way you're using it. When the word's been so otherwise hijacked.

[–]soundsituationI myself was once a gay 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I'm glad you were eventually able to find a competent therapist. It's baffling to me when older people fall for this stupidity but your experience is an unfortunate reminder that it does happen.

Maybe I'll go back and read through some of the old posts and try to identify some of these patterns... that sounds like a good exercise.

You might start with the mod log. I've been making my way through the queue as time allows and have seen a lot of obvious shit-stirring. The fact that there even is a year-old queue makes me think that the mods just straight up abandoned the place once ovarit came along, making it easy for trolls to slide in.

You could even suggest it to the other people on that sub, if they don't hate gay people too much to try it, lol.

Interesting idea! I might. Please also feel free to do so yourself if you like and if I don't get around to it in a timely manner.

Do you have any particular recommendations? I liked Imagine Me & You, but I don't know how many movies there are like that.

Okay, based on that I can recommend Kyss Mig (might also be under the English title With Every Heartbeat), Saving Face and Big Eden. That last one is one of the most underrated and understated love stories I've ever seen.

[–]reluctant_commenter[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Way late to respond to this, sorry lol.

The fact that there even is a year-old queue makes me think that the mods just straight up abandoned the place once ovarit came along, making it easy for trolls to slide in.

That was my impression, back when I was active there. The mod (there was only one for a while) would go for weeks without doing anything on the sub or removing any comments. To be fair, I haven't done anything with the sub I mod in like a month, lol... so I get it, stuff happens, people get busy. But yeah, I think that a lot of bad-faith posts were allowed to flourish that should've been curtailed.

There were a couple topics especially that usually led to fights that kept being brought up, over and over again:

  1. "bisexuals suck"
  2. "being a gold star lesbian is amazing / gold stars are victims"
  3. "let's talk about comphet"

I interacted with several users on the sub who proudly self-identified as "political lesbians," i.e. probably not actually lesbians, but radical feminists who held homophobic and sexist beliefs. But I wouldn't be surprised if some of the more egregious accounts were actually run by TRAs.

Okay, based on that I can recommend Kyss Mig (might also be under the English title With Every Heartbeat), Saving Face and Big Eden. That last one is one of the most underrated and understated love stories I've ever seen.

Thank you so much for the recommendations!! Will take a look :)

[–]soundsituationI myself was once a gay 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

There were a couple topics especially that usually led to fights that kept being brought up, over and over again:

  1. "bisexuals suck"
  2. "being a gold star lesbian is amazing / gold stars are victims"
  3. "let's talk about comphet"

I noticed this too (albeit in retrospect since I only started using saidit regularly 6-8 months ago), and I'm noticing the exact same thing on ovarit, so I suspect that the shills have migrated over there. None of these topics fall outside the believable realm of occasional discussion but the fact that it's a repetitive pattern (and one that many users clearly dislike) makes me think it's inorganic. And I think the point is to drive users away from forums.

[–]reluctant_commenter[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

so I suspect that the shills have migrated over there. None of these topics fall outside the believable realm of occasional discussion

For mentally healthy people, that is. It seems to me like at least a subset of radical feminists have an unhealthy fixation on and hatred of bisexual women... I mean, it's consistent with the belief system. "Women should only date women because men are terrible"-- and bisexual women, who actually have a choice between dating men and women, get maligned for dating men and they're seen as immoral and terrible. Jo Bartosch, a bisexual radical feminist, wrote an article about biphobia among radical feminists. Those "lesbian radical feminists" she's talking about aren't lesbian... they're political lesbians. AKA, women who aren't actually homosexual and are speaking over actual lesbians.

edit: But perhaps there are a drove of trolls following the radfems around. I wouldn't be surprised, given the vitriolic, hateful bent of the "AgainstHateSubreddits" community. Such an ironic name.

[–]soundsituationI myself was once a gay 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't think it's a drove of trolls. I think it's one person with tons of alts who strategically inflames the naturally existing pressure points in a group in the hopes of--my best guess--driving people away from that group. Tensions and differing opinions do exist in heterogeneous communities such as this one, and even among lesbians whose common denominator isn't a shared ideology after all, but just a bio-social reality. Most people--sane people--who find themselves in philosophically diverse spaces know that in order to maintain a pleasant and collaborative atmosphere it's best to highlight those tensions rarely, if ever, and with a light touch. So that's one reason why a specific type of "grievance" post raises red flags for me. The other reason is that this is a known pattern of ((that one user)); it doesn't require much stretch of the imagination to think that this subsaidit and perhaps even this site aren't the only places he's trolled.

So that's my $.02. I won't keep trying to convince you, though, because your points are valid as well and all either of us can do is speculate anyway.

"Women should only date women because men are terrible"

Genuinely curious, do they actually say this? I mean, you're right, that is consistent with some radfems' beliefs, but I always thought the bisexual hatred came more from a place of insecurity (about being left for a man) or jealousy (resenting the fact that bisexuals have more options, one of which is more socially acceptable).