all 6 comments

[–]jim_steak 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I feel like this article is being unfair. When it comes to gay men who support trans issues, I don't think very many of them are aware of the levels of harm that trans people are causing in the lesbian community and to women more broadly, which I think is a result of the heavy censorship in gay spaces and the media on that issue, rather than a callous disregard for the issues of women and lesbians. Bindel claims that gay men are "taking the opportunity to keep us (women) in our place", but I think it's far more likely that most gay men just trust that the media, the mental health industry, and the government are full of serious, credible people who wouldn't allow the mutilation of mentally ill people for profit, or would call it out if it were occurring.

Bindel also decries the misogyny in gay culture more broadly, citing terms like "fag hag", gay men using women's pronouns, and drag queens, which is a criticism I've heard from feminists before. I think there's definitely some misogyny in gay culture, but I think a lot of the appropriation of femininity is more about gay men poking fun at themselves and the inherent silliness of being a grown man with the interests and mannerisms of a teenage girl than it is about hating women.

I understand why Bindel is frustrated that her community still supports people who are making lesbians' lives a lot harder, and I can empathize with her on that. But I think her angry denunciation of gay men in general misses the mark, and I also think when you're trying to win people over to your side it helps to be understanding of their perspective, rather than treating them as part of a grand conspiracy that's out to oppress you.

[–]ChunkeeguyTeam T*RF Fuck Yeah[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I completely agree. There are many areas where I disagree with radfems but it's often hard to even politely argue a point without getting a "oh, so ~not all men~" response. But we can't defeat the gender terrorists by refusing to listen to each other.

[–]xanditAGAB (Assigned Gay at Birth) 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I wonder, who invented the term faghag, straight guys or us? Seems like its meant to insult both halves of the equation. also,

I have been forced to conclude that those gay men most vocal against feminists when it comes to transgender ideology do not care a jot about women; rather, they are taking the opportunity to keep us in our place.

Quite a jump to come to that conclusion, and i'm not even sure what place she means. Also leaves out the lesbians who go along with it, like the head of stonewall calling lesbianism racist and transphobic (for not sleeping with transwoman)

[–]HelloMomo 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Broadly speaking, I think that because TRAs have been telling everyone "shut up, it's not that bad, get over it" for so long, I think everyone is primed to react to any defensiveness with anger and hostility. I get the anger, the sentiment of, "No! I'm right to be angry!" And it is righteous anger, more or less.

But somehow, people take the step from there to actively feeding the anger. For example, I think that being angry at the actions of TRAs is enough. But some people want to drum up their anger even further by attributing malicious intent to them. The TRAs are bad enough as they are. There's absolutely no need to extrapolate, or draw conjecture you have no real evidence for.

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

[removed]

    [–]automoderatorHuman-Exclusionary Radical Overlord[M] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

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