HomophobiaWhat trans people don't get is that homosexuals were NEVER attracted to them.

submitted by 7874 from self.LGBDropTheT

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[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Okay, I think it's a word-choice glitch. Let me try to clarify:

I am not sure how much you are aware of this, so: By implication in statements like yours, bisexuals are relentlessly misidentified as the folks who will of course want to date TQ+ people when that is not true at all for many of us, so I am making that distinction explicit here so you'll understand if you get irritated responses from bisexuals here when we get rhetorically forced into a role that has nothing to do with our orientation. It's a common TRA refrain. Let's review this again in that light to see why I responded as I did:

They are lying about their sex, which attraction is contingent upon for anyone who isn't bisexual.

My attraction is 100% contingent on the other person 1. knowing what sex they are and thus being okay with it (and thus, being okay with their sexual orientation as well without any transition or declaring of NB status, etc.), and therefore 2. not lying about their sex. So we don't actually need to bring bisexuals into this as if we'd feel otherwise. That's what I am saying. Leave us out if it isn't relevant to the point you are making. You implied that bisexuality would equal being okay with deception about sex. Maybe that was unintentional, but that's how it is coming across. I am immovable about this point because so many people play fast and loose with this term and as someone who doesn't want to play along with the distortion of word meanings, I hope you will understand why I don't want to and won't do the same regarding being bisexual. Once people start changing / expanding / distorting the meanings of important words they start changing the lives of the people who use them in reference to themselves. Ask any lesbian who keeps being stalked and harassed by trans women (men) who call themselves lesbians.

So the baseline assumption I expect people to maintain is that being bisexual still means the same thing it always has meant: Attracted to biological males and biological females who accept biology and reality and thus their own bodies. (We didn't used to have to make the distinction about them also needing to accept reality, but here we are. That was assumed as part of the deal.)

Lesbians and gay men have the same expectations, they are just dealing with a subset rather than both sexes.

If that doesn't clear up why I will quickly offer a clarification about the use of the word "bisexual" then we'll have to agree to not understand one another for a bit longer and sort it out as time permits.

I'm trying to tell you there's a minefield here for bisexual people just like there is for gay men and lesbians, about how we are talked about and how we are treated and what we are assumed to want.

[–]7874[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

My attraction is 100% contingent on the other person 1. knowing what sex they are and thus being okay with it (and thus, being okay with their sexual orientation as well without any transition or declaring of NB status, etc.), and therefore 2. not lying about their sex.

And those are preferences, not sexual orientation, and not every single bisexual feels that way. However, every single homosexual is unable to feel sexual attraction to the opposite sex.

And sorry I mentioned bisexuals, but it is relevant because trans people are being homophobic by expecting homosexuals to somehow override their homosexuality and date them. The reason homosexuals aren't attracted to trans people of the opposite sex is because they're homosexual and these trans people are being homophobic by trying to pressure them to be with the opposite sex. Bisexuals are not attracted to trans people not because they're bisexual, but because trans people are undesirable partners for 9999999 other reasons, and no one should be pressured to date someone they're not interested in of course. I'm just pointing out the different mechanisms and the distinct homophobia in play when they target homosexuals.

I'm trying to tell you there's a minefield here for bisexual people just like there is for gay men and lesbians, about how we are talked about and how we are treated and what we are assumed to want.

And people who say you should date trans people are filthy incels, but what bisexuals face on this front is a bit different from what homosexuals face. Homosexuals have their own homosexual-only spaces they've created that are infiltrated by homophobic incels. These spaces are the only places they have. They have zero other options for dating other than homosexual-only spaces like apps, bars, cafes.

Attracted to biological males and biological females who accept biology and reality and thus their own bodies.

That isn't a sexual orientation. Sexual orientation only describes the sex one is attracted to. I don't date white people (no offense lol sorry to anyone reading this, I'll be friends but I'm simply not interested for physical reasons) because I don't feel attraction to them, but that doesn't make it part of my sexual orientation. There are no qualifiers in sexual orientation. Homosexuals like the same sex, heteros the opposite, and bisexuals both. If bisexuals think a person with breasts and a dick is unattractive because that's weird, more power to them and they have zero obligation to date anyone. However, said person is still male, and therefore falls within the bounds of a bisexual orientation, but is excluded by preferences.

I notice you brought up political reasons why you're arguing this point and I get it. But also consider the implications if we start adding preferences into sexual orientation. That's part of the reason we have ridiculous new "orientations" nowadays like "pansexual" or "cupiosexual" or any number of others. And if we say that orientations are not exclusively sex-based, that messes with the definitions we have now of "gay" and "lesbian". Who's to say we can't just start adding qualifiers like the TRAs? "Gay means attracted to males except there are exceptions for certain women." No! Gay just means homosexual male. If homosexuals have qualifiers or exceptions, what do they need the right to be homosexual for? If orientation is not sex-based, they can just find some very specific person of the opposite sex to be with. No. Sexual orientation is defined exclusively by the sex(es) on is attracted to.