DiscussionHow many LGB are gender critical?

submitted by RedJackalRampant homosexual from (self.LGBDropTheT)

I wonder - How much of the LGB community, as a percentage, are gender critical? What about by age group?

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[–]julesburm1891 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Here’s my 2 cents. I’m an American millennial, for reference.

Our species has two sexes that are physically different from each other. Neither one of these sexes can transform into the other.

Gender is, first and foremost, a linguistic term. Due to chicanery over the past few decades, it had also come to mean the stereotypes/expectations societies place upon an individual based on his or her sex. For example, the idea that boys like blue, play football, and wear pants OR that girls like pink, dance, and wear dresses.

I think the latter concept of gender is mostly bullshit. Liking baking and skirts is not what makes me a woman. Being female is what accomplishes that. Likewise, being into math and weightlifting doesn’t make me a man or less of a woman. (And if a dude wants to wear a dress and full face of makeup it doesn’t make him less of a man.)

That being said, I think there are probably some traits of each sex that do have a biological basis. For example, aggression levels and risk-taking behaviors tend to be higher in male primates than they do in female primates. Things like this deserve fair and unbiased study to see if there is a biological component. If there is ever concrete proof of explicit differences, it would not mean that individuals falling outside the norm aren’t their sex. It would means they have a feature atypical for their sex. (This is as silly as saying a female 2.1 meters tall has a male height. She does not. She has a height uncommon for females and more typical with males. But she is still biologically female.)

Sex is not a feeling. It is an objective, physical reality that we live with every day of our lives from birth to death. Our sex impacts how we navigate the world. It often impacts how we’re treated, what’s expected of us, and can impose limits on us. Claiming that stereotypes define a person ignores the biologic and cultural realities that come with sex. It is an insult to any thinking person.

[–]our_team_is_winning 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Very well-written. I'm saving that.

I'm Gen X, and this "gender" crap reminds me of when unfrozen Edwardian gentleman Adam Adamant first encountered 60s London. "What infernal place is this?"

Start 14:00

https://youtu.be/cOm5dlgQaVk?t=847

If anyone didn't know where Austin Powers was ripped off from, this is the source.

[–]reluctant_commenter 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Completely agree, and what research I've read on between-sex differences and similarities essentially points to a similar conclusion as you've described.

If there is ever concrete proof of explicit differences, it would not mean that individuals falling outside the norm aren’t their sex. It would means they have a feature atypical for their sex. (This is as silly as saying a female 2.1 meters tall has a male height. She does not. She has a height uncommon for females and more typical with males. But she is still biologically female.)

EXACTLY. I am constantly amazed when TRAs do not seem to grasp this point. What do they think the word "outlier" means? It means being extreme in context of one's group. It doesn't mean that an individual suddenly becomes a member of another group. It's such a narrow, herd-mentality view of groups, as though forcing everyone to either be like everyone else in the demographic and conform or force them to instead move to a different group. Whatever happened to diversity within groups...?

[–]MyLongestJourney 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Disclaimer : I dislike the term "gender critical" for accepting scientific facts like there are two sexes in our species.

Now regarding your question :There are no reliable data because even if one bothered to spent the money and the time to conduct a survey,the results would be unreliable as many heterosexual people today identify as gay or lesbian just because their opposite sex partner wears lipstic/injects testosterone.Also many people are scared to speak against the madness out of fear.And let's not forget the active censorship that takes place online.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes, fear and censorship play a big role in how we got in this mess.

[–]hufflepuff-poet 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes, I hate that just acknowledging biological facts like humans being unable to change our sex (male or female) makes me gender critical. I am gender critical but for me, the basic biological facts are not a part of my ideological beliefs they are just objective reality that I can't ignore.

[–]Q-Continuum-kin 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's probably heavily skewed towards older. I'm betting people 35+ remember gender being used as a prison to hold back gay rights. Many arguments were made by conservatives about "family" and that plays directly into your role in society.

People 30- are probably more used to the incorrect usage of gender as either a polite way to say "sex" or along the lines of the spectrum of snowflake personalities. Neither of those are correct but it's become so ubiquitous that the debate has been skewed along those lines. It seems like anyone who buys into those colloquial usages are far less likely to be gender critical. It would, in their minds, mean being critical of the biological reality of sex or being critical of their own narcissistic self ID.

This is why i hate the way the "definition" of gender has changed within both mainstream camps. It's now so God damn difficult to discuss gender because the moment you criticize someone's perceived definition they assume you are for the other incorrect definition.

I myself am critical of gender but I was definitely on the boarder of that wrong vs wrong debate before I looked into how the word was developed in the 70s

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I grew up thinking that gender was just a fancy term for sex. At least that’s what gender should mean. It shouldn’t matter what someone’s personality, appearance or hobbies are, but apparently it does. I wish that most LGB people saw through the gender bullshit and were vocal about seeing that this is bullshit, but it seems like this is not the case at all. Most of us, and most people in western society, have been successfully indoctrinated into this cult. Forget about the Middle Ages being the dark ages, this time right now is the real dark age.

[–]fuck_reddit 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Ive got money on around 20% of gay men. Idk about the other groups, I just know about 20% of gay men have voted republican in the past and that seems like the best metric we have.

[–]millicentfawcett 10 insightful - 3 fun10 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

I think it's a lot more than that and little to do with political allegiance. I can easily believe that most would rather rip their tongue out than admit to being gender critical/a believer in biology in the current climate but I'm sure their choice of sex partners tell you everything you need to know. If they aren't including FTMs in their dating pool, they know.

The saying goes;

TRA in the tweets TERF in the sheets

[–]reluctant_commenter 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm not "gender critical" i.e. radical feminist-- the two terms are often conflated, or sometimes radfems are described as being a subset of GC-- but I don't believe in the unfalsifiable theory of gender identity.

I think it'd be really, really hard to get an accurate percentage estimate. Reasons why:

  • LARPers - Some straight people seem to be identifying as LGB for social credit or as identity tourists. So even if you got a decent poll of LGB people that explicitly excludes TQ+, your estimate may still have some straight people in it who are claiming to be LGB because of their political beliefs (radfems) or who are straight people LARPing as a gay person the opposite sex from what they are ("trans lesbians" and "trans gay men"), etc.

  • Missing LGB people - Simultaneously, many LGB have avoided acknowledging their same-sex attraction by identifying as transgender, so that they can then be a "straight woman" (gay man) or "straight man" (lesbian/gay woman), so you'd have to chase down those people to have an accurate picture of LGB opinions...

  • Definition of gender critical - A lot of people don't know what "gender critical" means and there's some disagreement about its definition; I've seen people say that GC = radfem and some people say GC = doesn't believe in gender identity. You could approximate this by asking, "Do you believe transwomen are women and transmen are men?" or even more directly, "Do you define the words 'man' and 'woman' on the basis of sex, or gender identity?"

To take a stab at your question: I'm sure you're already aware but it's a pretty consistent relationship between age and belief in gender identity. The younger you are, the more likely you are to fervently believe in it; the older you are, the more likely you are to question it.

If you look at the general population, there have been surveys suggesting that the vast majority of the population ultimately views trans-identified people with the lens of sex, e.g. believe that transwomen should not be in women's sports. I'd imagine a somewhat lower, but still relatively high proportion of LGB people do as well; we're just not well represented currently in the media because we're being silenced and banned for expressing any views that are even remotely dissenting.

[–]soundsituationI myself was once a gay 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Depends on how you understand the term. Colloquially, "gender critical" now seems to be shorthand for just acknowledging the existence and immutability of sex, and I really believe that 90-95% of people (LGB or not) fit that description. The percentage is probably a bit lower among Gen Zers.

If by gender critical you mean the most hardline radical feminist stance of blank slate-ism (as in, absolutely no biological correlation between sex and behavior), I think the percentage falls a lot; less than half the population probably.

[–]Clitorisk 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Among whites, probably about 50%.

Among Black and Indigenous people of color: Probably under 10%.

A lot of gender critical ideology is dominated by white people and colonial ways of thinking.

[–]usehername 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

A lot of gender critical ideology is dominated by white people and colonial ways of thinking.

Elaborate.

[–]No_ 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It’s actually the opposite.