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[–]reluctant_commenter[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Hmm. I'm debating deleting this post, honestly. I kind of wonder whether a lot of people might've upvoted just because of the article's title, which sends a positive message, but didn't notice some of the harmful content.

Related:

  • Kathleen Stock just got added as a trustee to LGB Alliance, so her influence will extend beyond just this article.

  • LGB Alliance also platforms Sheila Jeffreys, a founder of the feminist group that first promoted "political lesbianism," the idea that women can decide to be lesbians:

Not Jeffreys. She became a lesbian in 1973 because she felt it contradictory to give "her most precious energies to a man" when she was thoroughly committed to a women's revolution. Six years later, she went further and wrote, with others, a pamphlet entitled Love Your Enemy? The Debate Between Heterosexual Feminism And Political Lesbianism. In it, feminists who sleep with men are described as collaborating with the enemy. It caused a huge ruction in the women's movement, and is still cited as an example of early separatists "going way too far".

"We do think," it said, "that all feminists can and should be lesbians. Our definition of a political lesbian is a woman-identified woman who does not fuck men. It does not mean compulsory sexual activity with women." Although many of the more radical feminists agreed, most went wild at being told they were "counter-revolutionary".

source: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/jul/02/gender.politicsphilosophyandsociety

I'm not trying to be an alarmist here, but I'm concerned about the possibility that in trying to challenge the way that transgender people are stifling our voices, we may run the risk of having radical feminists stifle our voices. The more I read, the more it seems to me that there is a strong undercurrent of bigoted, or at least, downright misleading, beliefs about same-sex attraction in radical feminism.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Hmm. I'm debating deleting this post, honestly.

Nah, leave it up. Supposing there's an issue, it'll only come to light if we can discuss. Maybe make another post if you dive into this issue? I think you've found something really important here.

[–]reluctant_commenter[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Sounds good, thanks for the feedback.

it'll only come to light if we can discuss.

Very true. I am reminded of that video posted on s/itsafetish by Schrodinger's Transcat. Maybe if there weren't so much censorship going on we'd have figured out more of this by now... But, that's a strategy that TQ-dominated organizations choose to employ, unfortunately.

Maybe make another post if you dive into this issue? I think you've found something really important here.

I'm thinking about it, glad you're interested. It would probably stir the hornet's nest; whenever someone has posted a thread about radfems in the past, we seem to get swarmed with pro-radfem comments. I'll have to do it when I have a good amount of time to respond.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

we seem to get swarmed with pro-radfem comments

Well there it is, huh?

[–]yousaythosethingsFind and Replace "gatekeeping" with "having boundaries" 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Keep up the post and the comments. There is value in the breakdown of this article in these comments. There is both good and bad in there. I do have the same concern about radicals feminism. In general, lesbians are almost never represented by actual lesbians.

But potentially giving Stock the benefit of the doubt where she says that it’s not about who you are attracted to right now, which in general I disagree with, it’s depending on what she is calling “attraction” and to what that person is “attracted” to.

[–]reluctant_commenter[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thanks for the suggestion. That's true, deleting it would hide all these thoughtful comments!

But potentially giving Stock the benefit of the doubt where she says that it’s not about who you are attracted to right now, which in general I disagree with, it’s depending on what she is calling “attraction” and to what that person is “attracted” to.

That's true, I was hopeful that there might have been some ambiguity there because she is allowing for cases where, say, someone might be persuaded to have sex with someone while drunk and become sexually aroused just because of physical manipulation-- I suppose you could call that "attraction" too. Guess we'll see in the long run!