Gay Men"Do I sound gay?" documentary

submitted by lovelyspearmintLesbeing a lesbian from youtu.be

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[–]grammaroo 9 insightful - 3 fun9 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 3 fun -  (15 children)

there's clearly something biological going on. A lot of men with effeminate voices would take out a mortgage if they could get rid of it. They cant hide it. If they try to sound masculine, theyre not sounding masculine, they end up sounding like an effeminate person making fun of how a masculine person sounds (a caricature). But if it's biological, then why isnt there a "lesbian voice". I've never heard of such a thing. Although AGP straight men pretend to be feminine and they come off as monsters when they do since it's a masculine man "imitating femininity", these people are clearly feminine and it seems to be in their core since they were 3 and it's obvious. As a gay guy, i just dont know what this means. Some gay men "camp it up for fun" and it can be annoying, but underneath it theyre still like this and so am i. If you take away their diva attitudes, their "campy-ness, their "sass", underneath the aesthetic they still have that voice but all those layers of aesthetic is their attempt to try and "own it". I think gay people are always vulnerable to this whole trans thing because we dont have our own proper culture to channel our "femininity" in our own ways and it ends up perverting itself by being "inspired" by women's femininity...which is different. I try to hide my "femininity" but it slips out once in a while. It's not the superficial kind of femininity and i think this is controversial to say but i think "femininity" <-- this is so not the right word but i have no other word for it-- is when gay guys are being human. When im happy, excited or expressing compassion and my humanity, it just doesnt seem very "manly". i dont do it in a girly way but everytime my humanity is involved in something, my "true self" slips out and i accidently forget all my "conditioning". Im not repressing some 14 year old diva inside of me but i never see straight or bi men have this side of them when they act happy or compassionate (i've also never seen them be genuinely happy unless theyre laughing at someone's pain or humiliation lol).

[–]OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen" 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

But they don't sound feminine at all. Listen to how real women speak then listen to the "gay man" voice. There is a world of difference, in fact, it's one of the reasons "trans women" do not pass for female in their voices. Because they put on the "gay voice" instead of actually successfully emulating female speech. Ironically even though society thinks the "gay voice" is unmanly or feminine, I think it's actually a very clear indicator of maleness.

I believe it's an "accent" picked up by communities. My evidence for this? I do not have a "gay voice." I am an intersex guy with an actually ambigious voice, I sound more like I have a low female voice than a male one. But that's because of my literal physical body and my failure to go through a normal male puberty. My voice never deepened like it does in normal males. But I do not have the "gay accent", because I have never known another gay male in real life, I have never participated in gay communities, thus there is no way I could consciously or unconsciously pick up the accent. I don't hear it.

[–]lovelyspearmintLesbeing a lesbian[S] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

From what the documentary covers, and from my own personal conclusion, it's a mix of a few factors. There is the biological aspect, where gay men may be predisposed to being effeminate/having an effeminate voice, but this is only a minor aspect. The two major aspects would be conscious or unconscious performative behaviour, as in they use the voice to show that they're gay (whether they're aware of the performance or not), and environmental aspects, as in who do they hang out with/spend time with. For example, the documentary shows that men who spent more time with their masculine fathers, or in a masculine environment, managed to avoid having a stereotypical gay voice, whereas a man who spends more time around gay male friends or women tends to have the gay voice, regardless of whether they're gay or not.

I too am fascinated why this isn't a phenomenon with lesbians, although I'm acutely aware that the pitch of my voice changes depending on which language I use and what environment I'm in. My voice is audibly lower when I'm with friends or people I'm familiar with, higher when I'm at work or in public on my own, lower when I speak Serbian, and higher when I speak English. I only noticed it a few years back, and it's pretty noticeable if I have to switch quickly between the environments/languages.

[–]grammaroo 10 insightful - 4 fun10 insightful - 3 fun11 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

I very much doubt it's performative. I think it only seems performative when these gay men become proud of it and "own it" but it's considered highly, highly sexually repulsive and unattractive within the gay community. The "performative" part is just a theory made up by heterosexuals who think we're acting. Again, in 3rd world countries and not just in western ones, this type of voice is a dead give away and subject to such humiliation and torment to the point that you're psychologically tormented into suicide. Even in the most psychotic environments where it's heavily discouraged, and gay people go to voice therapists to get rid of this voice, it's still there. I was closer to my dad than my mom and i still have the gay voice (but try to hide it). And these gay men are usually brainwashed to parrot things like homophobic talking points. If you go on interviews with gay men in the past, they'll attribute their homosexuality to spending more time with their mothers and having an absent father. I highly doubt they learn femininity from women just like women dont learn femininity from other women (only the performative aspects like the sass, attitude and the diva-ness (hence, the aesthetic i was talking about). To me, it's similar to taking a woman and putting her in a group of men with no understanding of femininity or women. She'll still end up having feminine behaviours and traits but they wont be perverted by culture. i think people like them (and me) end up "performing" masculinity and not doing a very good job at it. Even when theyre not proud of it, you can clearly see them trying to hide it and doing a very bad job at it. If a bunch of nazis took over america and tried to wipe out all these gay men with effeminate voices, they wouldnt be able to hide it very well if their lives depended on it. And its obvious when theyre trying to suppress it even if its a lifelong project for them.

[–]lovelyspearmintLesbeing a lesbian[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You should probably give the doco a watch. Yes, it's quite subjective as it's from the documentarian's perspective, but there is an interesting part where someone close to him is asked about whether he spoke that way when he was younger (as there was no recorded audio of him from his youth), and she said his voice started to change when he came out in college. Now, this could also be her looking out for 'gay behaviours' upon finding out he was gay, but he might have been unconsciously performative to fit into his new openly gay identity.

As I said, I think it's an unconscious behaviour rather than a conscious one, and some exacerbate it in certain settings, but as you said, I'm sure many wish they could stop it if they could.

[–]Elvira95Viva la figa 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You made me realize my voice does change based on language. My italian voice is deeper. Italian is masculine language, english is more feminine. I do prefer the deeper tone and try to speak from chest.

[–]lavender_menace 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm acutely aware that the pitch of my voice changes depending on which language I use and what environment I'm in. My voice is audibly lower when I'm with friends or people I'm familiar with, higher when I'm at work or in public on my own, lower when I speak Serbian, and higher when I speak English.

Apparently women change their pitch when feeling secure/insecure or confident/self-conscious. So when speaking in an uncomfortable environment the pitch goes higher albeit to work in her favor the pitch should deepen instead as high-pitched people are taken less seriously.

Don’t ask me for references I don’t remember where I read it.

[–]oofreesouloo⚡super lesbian⚡ 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I just think straight men are really, REALLY scared to show their vulnerability out of fear of looking "feminine" or "(stereotypically) gay". This year, I've met two men who I know like women and they're super emotional, even more than my current female friends. Because of this reason, just like you, I was surprised because it's not common at all to watch straight men being vulnerable and emotional like you see women on a daily basis. One of them even tells me he loves me sometimes but in a light tone just like female friends tell to each other lightly without actually want to date each other lmao. Oh, and neither of them are "feminine". Just sensible.

Now, the question is: are they bi? I don't know. But I do know theyre not gay. They both are a good example of how men should be, not afraid to show their emotions just like women are.

[–]OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen" 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

A lot of feminine guys are straight. Maybe even most. I know because I'm very into feminine dudes, but very few of them are bi let alone gay. And most gay men in my experience tend to be very masculine and obsessed with masculinity, to the point where I don't feel welcome in "gay spaces" because I am not a gym bro. Weird how society thinks it's the opposite.

[–]grammaroo 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

but they dont have "the voice" i guess?

[–]oofreesouloo⚡super lesbian⚡ 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

They don't, you're right on that.

[–]grammaroo 2 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

not to flatter bisexual men but they seem to be about 1000X more masculine than gay guys but im not sure if thats conditioning but their brains do seem to be alien to gay males brains. Not that i can see their brains but we do have these studies of "gay male's brains seem structurally more similar to a heterosexual female's brain and chemically reacts the same to pheromones" but i highly doubt bisexual males are similar to gay men in a lot of ways. This might be incredibly stupid to say but i think a lot of gay guys see bisexual males as sexy stupid monkey people. Their psychology, their thoughts, even the way they think or emotionally react to things seems like theyre missing a gigantic chunk of their souls but again....very manly lol it just feels like that goes hand in hand and it's somehow intertwined. I think a lot of gay men used to fetishize masculinity and see it super attractive and manly and we still do but when we had bisexual men try to flood or interact with us, it just felt so, so off but you could see them trying. It felt no different than a straight man just walking in. We were glad they were there at first and thought they were one of us but their souls are different and im not really sure why. I guess it's more than just same sex attraction that maks gay people "gay". And i wonder if thats what straight women see in straight men..the stupid sexy monkey thing with some lack of humanity that some gay guys feel when seeing bi guys.