all 16 comments

[–]ArthnoldManacatsaman🇬🇧🌳🟦 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

First off, I applaud the recent uptick in non-trans-related posts in this sub. But, to business.


I think sexist stereotypes are alive and well in the gay community (such as it is), especially when discussion turns to pigeonholing people into sexual roles like top and bottom. I don't think it's as prevalent as it once might have been, but there definitely still exists stereotypical images of tops and bottoms, and one of those is viewed as more feminine and subservient to the other. We all know which.

Traditional gender roles are fine if that's what works for people in the context of their own relationship. I wouldn't go so far to suggest that they are strictly necessary in same-sex relationships, but I do raise an eyebrow when someone says that he and his boyfriend are both masc4masc tops.

I will come straight out and say it, but I have unorthoodox views on gender non-conforming people, especially men. I could chalk it up to internalised homophobia, but my go-to reaction is to dismiss GNC men as attention-seeking queens. As someone who generally hates being the centre of attention I am quick to criticise what I perceive to be attention-seeking behaviour in others. I'm almost certainly confusing being gender non-conforming with being 'non-binary', but there we go.

I think 'the T' are cheerleading regressive gender roles, and this is one of the most toxic parts of their ideology. As much as I cringe at men in dresses (GNC women don't seem to present nearly as much of a problem to me) I think men who choose to do so should be allowed to without being told that they're 'secretly trans'. Their whole notion of who they are is predicated on outdated stereotypes regarding liking certain colours or being drawn to certain toys, and I think it's a slice of hot nonsense.


The debate surrounding racism and preferences is a fraught one at best. I'm personally of the belief that you cannot change who you are attracted to, and if that means you're hard wired to find Asian girls attractive, then so be it. This, in and of itself, I would not regard as racist or problematic. How one communicates and acts on those preferences can be, however. A lot of people write things like 'Black guys to the front of the line' or 'No Asians' in their dating / hookup profiles, which I think is a bit tasteless. If an Asian guy sends you a message the worst you can do is ignore it (which is its own, separate issue) - why feel the need to bar people from contacting you in the first place? You aren't obliged to be sexually attracted to anybody, but you're also not so pressed for time that saying 'Sorry, I think we're looking for different things' is beyond your capabilities.

I do not feel I have been discriminated against based on my race in terms of dating. I lived abroad for several years and there were instances where I questioned if my being foreign had anything to do with being treated in a less-than-stellar fashion, but I would not personally call myself the victim of LGB racism.


I have experience homophobia outside 'the community' but, thankfully, not for many years. I think all of us will have at some point.

I am pretty sure I myself have internalised homophobia, and I'm fortunate to say that I haven't spent any significant time dealing with anyone else who has, as that would be exhausting.

Regarding the existence or lack thereof of transphobia, I think it's the kind of thing where people know it when they see it. None of us would argue that calm, reasonably rational discussion of the finer points of gender ideology is transphobic. Some TRAs would. Foaming at the mouth and shouting about how trans people are all abominations and degenerates probably would be considered transphobic by most rational people, but a hard core of gender critical feminists would certainly argue against that.

Edit: formatting.

[–]usehername 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm a bi woman from the U.S.

SEXISM----------

LGB Community: Where I live, basically everyone holds sexist views. Honestly, in my experience, the bi people I know do not tend to hold much less sexist views, but are at least more open to being challenged on them, versus hets who will get defensive and backpedal.

T Community: The whole thing's built on sexist stereotypes. What can I say?

I am gender-non-conforming and I think every woman should be, at least in terms of ritualistically humiliating feminine beauty rituals. It's a simple fact that overly feminine women are less respected, especially in the workplace. Others will think you are vain or want their musty attention and harass you. As far as men who do these rituals... I can't really relate, but it must feel good because they weren't "allowed" to do it growing up, usually. More power to em I guess, but women should not be wearing restricting/damaging clothing like heels in the workplace, and makeup is a time-waster and honestly does not make you look better. I feel sorry for gender-conforming women and men, but in different ways. For example, men who dress "conformingly" are being practical most of the time, and I support that, do the same, and encourage other women to do so as well. There is not much of "femininity" that's worth salvaging. Traditionally feminine hobbies like knitting shouldn't be shamed by men, but all of the "beauty" stuff can go right in the trash.

Gender roles in a same-sex relationship... well you can't have two people who exclusively work and do nothing around the house or vice versa. There is likely to be some difference in roles. If people want to have "traditional" gender-roles, that's okay up to a point. I have that in my relationship (I'm the one who works and does little around the house, partner stays home). I cringe at the thought of someone being completely dependent on their partner, the one who does not work should have a good chunk of money in a personal savings in case one partner gets a brain tumor or something and completely loses it.

RACISM----------

It is not racist to have racial preferences, but if those racial preferences are based in racist stereotypes ("I prefer Asians because they're submissive") or that sort of thing, that makes you a racist. However, finding certain races more attractive because you like their features is not racist. Is it racist to prefer people with big doe eyes? Then why would it be racist to prefer small eyes? Some people think certain features are beautiful, even when they're not traditionally considered to be.

I'm not really part of any community, but bi people don't tend to be more racist than others, in my experience.

I'm white and yes, a little. White people are actually technically the minority where I live, and some people really do not like us, but racism is rampant in general here. Honestly, the worst I get is dirty looks or mistrust, and it's not as bad as what my partner gets in the white areas (he is from the majority race here). I have never been denied service on the basis of my race, and any encounters I've had with cops have been quite friendly. I do live in the white area of town, so my experience has been quite mild. I know someone who grew up in a city near me and was literally the only white person at his school. He was extremely hated and suffered verbal and physical abuse and social ostracization on the basis of his race, and... it took its toll. He turned out extremely racist, as you can imagine. He has improved over the years, but I would still consider him very racist. There's no excuse to be racist, of course, but it's clear that if he was not treated that way by his peers, he wouldn't have turned out this way. Plenty of people become racist without any provocation from said race, but it's not always that way.

HOMOPHOBIA/BIPHOBIA----------

Honestly, I have not been in an "out" homosexual relationship, so I have not experienced much homophobia. When I came out to my sister, she basically said I was confused, disgusting, a liar, and would end up with a man some day, so there's some homophobia and biphobia.

"I don't like labels" and "sexuality is fluid" are extremely biphobic statements and any bi person who describes themselves this way has a lot of internalized biphobia. ESPECIALLY the "sexuality is fluid" people. The reason this statement is biphobic is because the premise pretends bisexuality doesn't exist. Ok... so I fall in love with a man, then later fall in love with a woman. You're telling me I literally changed sexualities? I'm not bi, I was straight and then became a lesbian! This is confusing and hurtful to bi people, who already perpetually doubt themselves, at least for the first few years. It contributes greatly to our erasure. It's also homophobic, and honestly heterophobic. If someone believes they are gay/lesbian for many years, then falls in love with someone of the opposite sex, they are fucking bi. Their sexuality did not change. They are bisexual. I hate queer theory.

On the topic of trans/homophobia... this one's hard. If a passing trans-identified male (suspend your disbelief) was in a relationship with a straight man, and the straight man takes off the trans-id male's pants to see a penis, and then subjects him to an attack, it's a homophobic attack. He was disgusted at the fact that this man tricked him into thinking he was a woman and "made" him do gay things. I'm not gonna say transphobia is impossible or doesn't exist, but the attacks they are subjected to will mostly be homophobic, especially since the attacks are perpetrated exclusively by straight/bi/gay(rarely) men, who are homophobic, and in some cases have internalized homophobia. This is also difficult because the term "transgender" is literally meaningless with the advent of self-id, so one would have to define it in the case of transsexuals. I suppose if some man didn't have a homophobic bone in his body but thought transsexuals were freaks because of the mutilating plastic surgeries and sought to attack them for that reason, that would be transphobia.

ADDITIONAL THOUGHTS----------

I'm glad you used the correct definitions of "racism" and "sexism", instead of the Critical Social Justice Theory versions. People who believe that ideology have an entire language made up where they can never be wrong.

[–]hetisachoice 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Heterophobia

This is like "anti-white racism": a backhanded way to express bigotry against a marginalized group while sounding woke, in essence trying to blame them for their own persecution.

[–]usehername 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Can you translate this from wokespeak to English? Do you genuinely believe that people can't be bigoted towards majority groups?

[–]reluctant_commenter 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

This person thinks being heterosexual is a choice, according to their username and past conversations I've had with them, but that being gay is not a choice. I am unsure whether they are a troll or a gay person who actually holds these beliefs.

edit: Also--

wokespeak

Horseshoe theory in action, haha. This person keeps posting off-topic stuff supporting the U.S. Capitol rioters.

[–]usehername 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Wow... looked into that theory and it would explain this horrible "marriage" I've seen between the ideologies of ultra woke and the ultra conservative. I literally can't tell the difference between them until they let slip which side they support.

[–]hetisachoice 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

You're calling me woke for calling white heterosexual liberals racist and homophobic?

[–]usehername 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Have you ever heard of Critical Social Justice Theory?

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

I think a LOT of White people absolutely refuse to discuss the role they play in supporting and maintaining systems that oppress other marginalized groups. Like, they are actually incapable of realizing that maintaining the systems that provide them with power and comfort come at the expense of POC, and their "advocacy" or "activism" excludes or marginalizes the needs of POC.

This is particularly prevalent in radical feminism communities, since radical feminism primarily addresses the comfort and empowerment of White women while largely ignoring the voices and needs of women of color.

[–]usehername 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

"This is particularly prevalent in radical feminism communities, since radical feminism primarily addresses the comfort and empowerment of White women while largely ignoring the voices and needs of women of color."

Examples?

[–]Eurowoman24 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

following, wondering how my needs aren't met.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

WOLF, the major rad-fem organization in the United states, has no women of color in leadership roles.

[–]usehername 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

WoLF is not a radfem organization, despite their claims. They collaborate with Heritage, a homophobic right-wing organization, and have many homophobic leaders and members. It's more of a conservative group. There are not any major radfem organizations in the U.S. to my knowledge.

[–]latuspodSuper Straight 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think it is fucking hilarious when people spout the same non sense Critical theory/post modern bunk that leads to the gender identity bullshit that TRAs are pushing. Woke Oppression Olympics.