Before the madness - The Slope : "Straight-Acting", "Internalized Homophobia", "Sexists interpretation of Femm/Masc"

submitted by DummDick_998634230 from (self.LGBDropTheT)

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[–][deleted]  (12 children)

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    [–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 11 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

    I guess modern society is just becoming misandrist...

    It is. There is an attack on masculinity. Because masculine men are independent, strong, capable of cooperating with members of the community, protective of their families and communities, and they are attractive. It’s okay for a man to be effeminate, but for society to function, most men need to be masculine. Because you have to be masculine if you want to be a builder, a firefighter, a police officer or a soldier. Don’t believe me? Women in these positions tend to be more masculine than the average woman.

    [–]just_lesbian_things 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Because you have to be masculine if you want to be a builder, a firefighter, a police officer or a soldier.

    It's a cultural thing within those industries but you don't need to be masculine to drive a fire truck, issue a speeding ticket or apply caulk. Also:

    independent, strong, capable of cooperating with members of the community

    Those aren't inherently masculine features. Plenty of people who would be categorized as feminine are all of the above. If we're playing the gender game, cooperation is by far much more attributed to femininity than masculinity.

    [–]PenseePansyBio-Sex or Bust 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    It’s okay for a man to be effeminate, but for society to function, most men need to be masculine. Because you have to be masculine if you want to be a builder, a firefighter, a police officer or a soldier. Don’t believe me? Women in these positions tend to be more masculine than the average woman.

    While I absolutely agree that the "feminine" approach has its limitations (like not being well-suited to certain things, some of them societal musts)... know what? So does the "masculine" one. Which is to say that... gender-roles do. Meaning sex-based stereotypes that dictate, and restrict (like a psychological straitjacket), one's personality: who, and what, you're "allowed" to be... or acknowledge being. Whether or not this has anything to do with your actual personality, preferences, or abilities.

    What I think we REALLY need for society to function is everyone being freed of these straitjackets. No more gender-roles; no more "masculine" or "feminine", except as shorthand for biological sex itself (penises are masculine; vulvas are feminine). People should do, and be, what follows from their individual qualities. In effect, we should ALL be a mixture of the personality traits and skills which, though currently designated "masculine" and "feminine", are in fact unisex. Or, more simply, just... human.

    So rather than characterizing those who perform functions like builder/firefighter/police officer/soldier as "masculine", it might be more useful to think of them in the following way, as laid out by American author Robert Heinlein (1907-1988):

    "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyse a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."

    While I'm not a Heinlein fan or anything, this description of a fully-rounded, competent "human being"-- encompassing both sexes-- strikes quite a chord with me.

    [–]BiHorror 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Watch it, an certain critical group will go after your comment for that "attack on masculinity" bit. You know how they can be.

    Nevertheless, I have noticed that as well. Women in those positions are masculine. Or some of them least androgynous. Alongside most to all cultures have masculinity (even the ones with less sex roles restriction) be seen as protection, hunters, strength, etc.

    [–]oofreesouloo⚡super lesbian⚡ 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

    As far as I know, fem4fem lesbians don't have that problem. No one blames them for their feminity or for preferring feminine women.

    Oh believe me, we are blamed. I've been blamed. I know other femme lesbians who have. They tell us we're "picky", that we're obsessed with "femininity performance" or whatever the fuck they want to call it.

    Femme4femme lesbians face the exact same problem as you do. The gay community and the lesbian community, despite being so different (I think), have a few very similar things surprisingly. There are a couple of lesbians, in particular if they're radfem, that do look down on femininity and claim it is "oppressive" or that women look like "clowns" with make up and are submissive instead of being so ~masculine and practical and "interested in real stuff"~. Yes, because it's impossible to like interesting stuff AND be feminine at the same time! /s

    [–]Elvira95Viva la figa 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    I don't care about make up. I'm forced to wear it because of bad skin issues I need to fix, otherwise I would just wear light eyes make up or. To me femininity isn't make up. I like feminine women, but not necessaraly make up and dresses. I just don't like short hair and masculine clothes. That's just a turn off for me There is a difference between high femme and being masc. Masculinity is just a no go

    [–]DummDick_998634230[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Yeah, this is the problem I assumed lesbians would face. Feminists, similarly to the LGBTQ+ community telling you to "Be yourself", would give you the illusion of choice and if you chose the wrong one they might think you're a traitor. They might think you're lying to yourself or have Stockholm syndrome if you still chose to be a feminine woman.

    I really don't understand why such phenomenon happen with activist groups, they say they give you freedom yet they become very authoritative when they feel like you chose wrongly. Such insane gate-keeping I guess is just what happens when there's no "central" point in activism, controlling narcissist jump into the bandwagon of Good Intentions to abuse it as an excuse to police others. :(