AL: Does having been attracted to women who now identify as men mean I'm not a lesbian?

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[–]winterwillow[S] 26 insightful - 1 fun26 insightful - 0 fun27 insightful - 1 fun -  (18 children)

Found this on AL, and it's something I've been thinking about too since the whole Elliott Page thing. Does being attracted to masc/butch women mean you're actually straight or pan according to gender ideology? The commenters explain it as since she didn't know they were men she viewed them as female, so that's some 'sanity' at least.

This must be so confusing and difficult to navigate for young LGB people, eager to be inclusive and 'kind' trying to be attracted to what they're not, and not be attracted to what they actually like because ~gender~.

[–]reluctant_commenter 25 insightful - 1 fun25 insightful - 0 fun26 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

This must be so confusing and difficult to navigate for young LGB people, eager to be inclusive and 'kind' trying to be attracted to what they're not, and not be attracted to what they actually like because ~gender~.

Yeah. Exactly. This was where I was at about a year ago. I felt terrible because I was not into transwomen, and thought that made me a terrible person because everywhere online said (and still says) that was transphobic.

It is also hard to work through those thoughts because the vast majority of supposedly LGB-focused places online (reddit, tumblr, twitter) have trans-identified people as their vast majority of participants. Like this comment section, where you have a "transbian" reassuring OP that OP is gay. Trying to sort out what is right and wrong and for what reasons requires a lot of mental effort. Took me months to get there.

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

This was where I was at about a year ago. I felt terrible because I was not into transwomen

I'm glad you were able to escape their trap.

[–]reluctant_commenter 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Thank you, I am too. JKR's essay and people's reactions to it (e.g. criticizing it without reading it...) and the banning of r/truelesbians helped me realize how closed-minded one side was being.

Sometimes I still feel bad about it, though, lol. Heard a coworker call JKR a TERF out loud today... sounds funnier hearing it irl than seeing it written.

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

It's really disappointing how many lefties have abandoned critical thought, while thinking they haven't. Humans are tediously predictable.

Try not to feel bad about it. Really. They aren't women. So they're irrelevant. All this yelling and labeling and lying and threatening is about trying to force relevance where they have none.

[–]reluctant_commenter 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Thank you for your thoughtful words. I'll do my best. :)

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I was looking for a web site full of Twitter TRA threats against women but I can't find it at the moment. It's a great antidote. Will drop it here if I find it. It's probably linked from some post on this sub. It was wall-to-wall violence and threats.

Remember...you are not responsible for others' choices, including the choice to change their bodies in ways that will make them inherently unattractive to many other people (and continue their irrelevance to their target audience). It's no different from getting a terrible tattoo on your face or taking up a pack-a-day smoking habit. That's going to appeal to a very small niche market. They can date each other if what they've done to themselves is so great.

[–]reluctant_commenter 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Oh, actually, were these some of the links you're thinking of? https://saidit.net/s/LGBDropTheT/comments/60sj/why_do_you_want_to_drop_the_t/nkjx

I agree, it does help to realize how horribly wrong and harmful these people's claims and actions are. I think I just struggle with it because I hear anti-"terf" sentiments IRL sometimes, even from people I would consider friends (I live in a very TRA-positive area). Makes me wonder if either there's something wrong with me or if the people I'm friends with aren't nearly the people I thought they were. Unfortunately, it seems to be the latter. And that's sad.

It's no different from getting a terrible tattoo on your face or taking up a pack-a-day smoking habit. That's going to appeal to a very small niche market. They can date each other if what they've done to themselves is so great.

That's a great way of putting it.

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Oh, actually, were these some of the links you're thinking of?

Ah yes, I looked there and missed seeing terfisaslur.com the first time. That one in particular is a good cure.

Makes me wonder if either there's something wrong with me or if the people I'm friends with aren't nearly the people I thought they were. Unfortunately, it seems to be the latter. And that's sad.

Well, hopefully some of those are just not aware of what's really going on yet, like many of us weren't, and they'll come around. My policy is to avoid engaging on this topic with such people right now, as I don't have the bandwidth to deal with weird or abusive responses. The odds are very good your anti-TERF friends don't know what we know. If they would still support that dogma after learning, then yeah, probably time to let them go. But you are not obliged to put yourself in harm's way to find out which way they are going to go, either. People are responsible for their own choices.

[–]reluctant_commenter 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The odds are very good your anti-TERF friends don't know what we know.

I'll try to keep that in mind, that's true. I didn't know for a long time. And, I have actually not brought it up, other people have just made these comments on their own, signalling trans support. I'm not sure I have the bandwidth, either-- so I try to put my energy into this sub, lol.

[–]CaptainWTFman-hating bisexxual 19 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 0 fun20 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

This must be so confusing and difficult to navigate for young LGB people, eager to be inclusive and 'kind' trying to be attracted to what they're not, and not be attracted to what they actually like because ~gender~.

I have watched both my best friends (we're all early 30s) go through this kind of confusion. One of them, gay lady, has had multiple partners come out as trans, leading her to change her conception of her sexuality to fit....whatever is implied by preferring butch women who nowadays all seem to turn into dudes sooner or later. My other friend is a gay man, and was sent into an identity crisis when his partner announced that they were trans. The relationship didn't end up holding, but my friend could never admit that the primary reason for it ending was because....as hard as he tried to be woke, he actually only likes men. (But now he feels bad identifying as gay because he has had a "girlfriend.")

I've had to navigate a few trans people being REALLY SURE that I should want to date them because ~obvs bi people like all the parts!~ But... I don't exist to provide that service to the world.

Given how ridiculous it is out there in the dating world, I am eternally grateful that I found a gf who feels the same way I do about this issue.

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I've had to navigate a few trans people being REALLY SURE that I should want to date them because ~obvs bi people like all the parts!~ But... I don't exist to provide that service to the world

In the right places, on the right people, who we then also are attracted to. Indeed, we sure do not provide this. So sick of this forced-recruitment of "bisexual" to mean "default attraction to trans people" when it means nothing of the sort.

[–][deleted]  (3 children)

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      [–]automoderatorHuman-Exclusionary Radical Overlord[M] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      Your submission has been removed due to:

      Rule 4. Disallowed Language

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