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[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

The issue here is that trans women don't "identify" as men yet want access to men's spaces. It's like when trans men get arrested and suddenly they want to be put in the women's prison even though they don't identify as such.

Those of us who are on the side of biology are well aware that trans women are male and trans men are female. However the problem OP's post is addressing is how, using TRAs own logic, it makes no sense to allow trans women in gay men's spaces.

what is the difference between my presence in the space and a drag queen?

The difference is a drag queen knows he's a man and doesn't try to pretend he isn't. He's not trying to be a woman,. He knows he's a man in drag. Trans women, whether they pass or not, are trying to distance themselves from being men and in doing so lose the ability to have access to certain things when it's convenient. This is why we want to drop the T. All it does is overcomplicate things unnecessarily when discussing LGB issues. You don't "need" one or the other. Yes you should rightfully be excluded from women only spaces because you aren't female. However, actions have consequences. If you willfully distance yourself from being a man by calling yourself a trans woman, non binary, or whatever, the consequence is you lose access to male only spaces. Because the men in those spaces aren't trying to separate their identify from their maleness.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

So you think that trans women belong nowhere then. Neither women’s spaces nor men’s.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Ideally I think trans people would get their own spaces where it's appropriate (sports, shelters, prisons, etc), catered to their unique trans situations and issues. But that's not good enough for most trans people. There was a trans man I read about recently who was arrested and naturally wasn't put in the men's prison because it would be unsafe for any female bodied person. Putting her in the women's prison wasn't suitable either because she was trans so they put her in solitary confinement until they figured out what to do with her.

In the article she then complained that she was 'discriminated against' because the only reason they put her in solitary was because she was trans. Well, yeah? That's kinda how it works when, regarding the two usual options, one option is unsafe and the other leaves the prison wide open for the pitchfork mob to cry 'transphobia'. They accommodated her anyway with a third option (the best one imo) and it still wasn't good enough. I've seen this so often where people will offer a third option to a trans person but that's not validating enough because they want to be one of the guys or one of the girls but flip flop when it suits them.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Solitary confinement is cruel and unusual punishment outlawed in most countries. I think dedicated trans facility hubs would be best prison wise but it’s certainty but the “best option” since solitary amounts to torture.

[–]SheepleArePeople2 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think sex segregated spaces should be segregated by sex. Thats it.