LGB HistoryLGBT "rights" by country. (Calling all fact checkers)

submitted by OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen" from self.LGBDropTheT

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[–]fuck_reddit 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Because in the ME, it's either them or Iran. And the Saudis and Iran basically only agree on how to kill gays...

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Ooooooor we could be allied with neither of those fuckers. However seeing how the geopolitics of that area is shaping up right now I don't see how we can extract ourselves from being allies with the Saudis unfortunately. Would be kinda funny if the "woke" culture seeped into Saudi Arabia though.

[–]fuck_reddit 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I wish that could be the case, but since reality is not what I choose, I pick Saudi Arabia over Iran. Iran has a diverse economy and a good strategic geography. Saudi Arabia has few people, no geographic barriers, and nothing except oil. They are completely reliant on oil and will collapse when it runs out. I say, work with them today to keep Iran from being a threat, then let Saudi Arabia collapse on their own, then help them establish a modern government with some concept of rights.

[–]PenseePansyBio-Sex or Bust 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

This is an interesting take (and may well be the best strategy).

Even so, i see a plausible argument for the reverse:

  • While the Saudis will certainly run out of oil at some point (though not necessarily money: they've invested lots of those petrodollars elsewhere, after all), you know what they'll still have? Religious clout. As keepers of the holy places (Mecca & Medina), and the homeland of not only Islam's dominant sect (Wahhabism) but the religion as a whole, THAT aspect of their power/influence will continue unabated. Which, having already yielded Al Qaeda, the Taliban, Al-Shabaab (Somalia), and ISIS-- all Wahhabi-- is no small thing. I'd also assume that, if they can no longer exert power through oil and/or wealth, they'll only double down on doing it through religion. Seems like that would just make them more hostile towards the west in general and the U.S. in particular.
  • Iran actually has democracy in its modern history, unlike the Kingdom. Now, granted, it was the U.S. that put an end to that (when the CIA overthrew their elected government), but still: this might be something that we could build on-- that's already part of Iranian culture. Also, with Wahhabism rapidly taking over the Sunni world and being implacably hostile to the Shia, Iran really needs some allies (their sect makes up only 10-15% of all Muslims). And don't forget that Saudi Arabia's Eastern Province-- i.e., where all the oil is-- just happens to be majority-Shia. (Yeah, they're Arabs, not Persians, but being a minority that's so under-the-gun, Shia tend to stick together.)

Thoughts?

[–]fuck_reddit 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You are right that they have a ton of money, but they are bleeding it like crazy. If I remember correctly from an essay I wrote, they had roughly $754 B saved up in 2018, but the emergence of US fracking caused oil prices to go down. This meant that the Saudi's had to start spending this money to stay afloat and within one year, they had spent nearly $100 B of that saved money. I haven't looked at the numbers over the past year, but crude oil going negative couldn't have been good for them. They are diversifying, but way too slowly for the rate of their decline. The religion aspect is a wild card. I can't say either way what will happen. I think the only consolation is that their religious clout will be checked in all scenarios by the rampant sectarian conflicts of the Middle East. I definitely agree with encouraging republican government in Iran. The (apparent) lack of US support during the recent protests was a major sore point for me, but I don't quite know how we could intervene without creating an even worse scenario that may not be resolved anytime soon. My major concern is that a lot of the republicans in Iran fled to the US and elsewhere after the revolution and the democratic spirit may not be as strong in the current culture. I don't have any clear evidence for this either way though, just an anxiety of mine. I don't know about Shias sticking together though. Iraq and Iran are not very friendly. Very good points! Very thought provoking.