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[–]PenseePansyBio-Sex or Bust 28 insightful - 2 fun28 insightful - 1 fun29 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Isn't it interesting how TRAs seem to hate actual GNC people? Especially ones like drag queens and butch lesbians who don't consider themselves trans?

THIS! Indeed, I'd go so far as to say that TRAs don't just seem to hate actual GNC people, they in fact do hate them, full-stop!

After all, the entire trans narrative rests on gender conformity, doesn't it? Rules such as "dresses/skirts, high heels, makeup, long hair, pink = woman". Because if those things ceased to be associated with femaleness-- if there was no longer any sense that women should wear them, or that men shouldn't -- then how could men signal that they "identify" as women? How could we distinguish between "transwomen" and all the other men who accept their maleness while also choosing to wear eyeliner/nail polish/skirts etc.?

So GNC people are really transgenderism's natural enemy. They demonstrate that, despite TRAs' fervent belief and best efforts to convince us otherwise, gender-roles are not, in fact, the same thing as sex, nor do they override it. And if you don't buy this primacy-of-gender argument... well, that's the ball game, as they say; TRAs have got nuthin'. Or, in other words: checkmate, TRAs! (to mix my game-metaphors all to hell)

Which is why I'm perpetually astonished that the whole trans-travesty continues to be seen as an exercise in gender NON-conformity. As though such people are out there fighting against all those damn regressive pink-is-for-girls/blue-is-for-boys sex-stereotypes! When the reality is that they're fighting FOR them! How can everyone have gotten it so ass-backwards?

My best guess: it's the result of an erroneous assumption-- namely, that in rejecting the gender-role for your sex, you are thereby rejecting gender entirely. Like, as a concept. The whole enchilada.

And, of course, you ARE rejecting a central tenet of gender: that it is assigned by society based on your observed biological sex. For it to instead be chosen by oneself is indeed a departure, and quite a radical one, at that.

But the thing is: that's their SOLE departure. Other than this? TRAs and the more familiar breed of traditionalist gender-enforcers are on the same page. They only differ on who gets to assign these stereotypes (the individual vs society), and on what basis (one's fee-fees vs observed biological sex). Which, at least from where I sit, looks less like fundamental disagreement than mere quibbling.

Could it be that, if we publicized these facts, much of TRAs' leftist/progressive support might evaporate? Cuz I can't see how they'd justify being on the side of gender-role policing. Or championing stereotypes, for that matter.

[–]MarkJeffersonTight defenses and we draw the line 10 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

But the thing is: that's their SOLE departure. Other than this? TRAs and the more familiar breed of traditionalist gender-enforcers are on the same page. They only differ on who gets to assign these stereotypes (the individual vs society), and on what basis (one's fee-fees vs observed biological sex). Which, at least from where I sit, looks less like fundamental disagreement than mere quibbling.

Yeah, this. They both believe in gender-conforming boxes for people. It's just that the TRAs believe people can go into any box they want at any time. And anyone who escapes or is in the process of escaping these boxes entirely (gnc) they try to force them back in through social pressure by claiming they are actually the opposite gender or something. And if the gnc person takes issue with this they are called regressive and close-minded or in denial about their own "egg"ness.

[–]BiHorror 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Sex and gender are the same thing. It's sex roles that's created by society. Stereotypes do hold some true to them, but obviously not for all, like me, but that does not rule over the majority. Honestly, GC and TRAs are also alike when it comes to manipulating the English language.