Colonization"My first sign I was trans was wanting to be gay"

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[–]haveanicedaytoo💗💜💙 19 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 0 fun20 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

That thread was really... Brain-scrambling. I had seen a thread like it before on the old GC and this one woman explained about all the different kinds of hypothetical power dynamics that are achievable in a fictional male X male situation created by a woman (mainly a situation where both the partners are truly equal) and I really really liked that idea. And I understood the "well, why not female x female fiction" as, "well, most of the readers of this stuff are straight women, they don't care about female x female" but to see so many lesbians who are/were into yaoi kind of tosses that theory out the window....

But some women in this thread went REALLY in-depth and talked about how getting lost in those hypothetical relationships emotionally stunted them IRL, and that's so scary.

This one in particular: https://saidit.net/s/GenderCritical/comments/5n2b/the_role_of_yaoianime_bl_in_the_gay_tif/lu8x

I wonder what's going on in Japan/Korea. Are actual fujoshis wanting to transition into dudes so they can date gay guys? Or is this only an internet problem that affects foreigners?

[–]reluctant_commenter 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

Just wanted to say, brain-scrambling is the perfect description; I also went back and read through that whole thread just now. I do think that it is super fascinating, and scary, that it sounds like lesbians are some of the more hardcore fujoshis? Which checks out with my personal experience, but like, wow. It sounds like internalized misogyny might be the magic bullet that's in play here.

[–]florasisHOMOSEXUAL FEMALE/Pussy is my God and I'm monotheist 13 insightful - 4 fun13 insightful - 3 fun14 insightful - 4 fun -  (9 children)

Well, personally seeing gay porn would be totally repulsive to me.So lesbians liking it, yeah, they got a serious problem LMAO

[–][deleted] 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Yeah. It’s really weird. Honestly, it’s really really really hard to imagine a real ass lesbian being into gay porn. It’s just really not lesbian to watch porn with two dudes, like, REALLY not lesbian. That’s the least lez thing I can even think of.

[–]artetolife[S] 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

It's not such a strange concept when you consider that the "men" in yaoi don't look or behave anything like a real gay man, and the commnity built around it is almost exclusively female, so they are going online and roleplaying their sexual fantasies with other women.

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I found the yaoi I have seen offensive stereotypes of men. It was pretty ridiculous. Is that what those women actually think of gay men?

[–]haveanicedaytoo💗💜💙 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I admit I haven't dug very deep (I can spend about 5-10 minutes browsing before my 'Holy hell WTF am I looking at??' alarm kicks in.) But I know there is this one thing that's very popular, (or used to be?) the tops look like tall giant hulking basketball players in their 20's and the bottoms look like 10-12 year old skinny frail children. I know not all of them are like this, but this kind of pairing is/was pretty popular. And what I found interesting about it was that some of the girls/women were identifying with the bottoms, which is what people would assume a woman would naturally identify with (it makes my eyes roll even typing that) but a lot of these women/girls would identify with the big guy and objectify the little guy. And...... (I don't want to say internalized pedophilia, I want to stay positive) what I liked about it was that women were embracing their "inner tops" I guess.

I really don't understand what lesbians would get out of this kind of big older looking guy/smaller younger looking guy dynamic. It seems modeled on heterosexual gender roles but taken to the extreme.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Yeah, it’s also RAMPANT in lesfic. I assume it’s women who are not lesbians that have parental issues. The grossest thing about it is when they make the young person the aggressor, like ewwwwwwwwwww.

[–]reluctant_commenter 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Or lesbians with parental issues? When considering that GNC children are way more at risk for abuse (I think I have seen a couple peer-reviewed articles on this topic), and many lesbians are GNC and have a higher rate of having sexual abuse histories, it makes a lot of sense to me why even lesbians might go down this path.

I kind of wonder how much all of this stuff-- from the transgender stuff and yaoi to BDSM-- might be related to covert sexual abuse going on. Overt too, but especially covert, which people might be able to more easily reason away as not "real" abuse. Children are the most sexually assaulted demographic, after all. Little girls.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It is certainly possible. I just wish people wouldn’t use lesfic to work their weird stuff out because it makes us all look like major creeps, and those types of relationships are not the norm among lesbians, but to look at all the tropes you would assume so.

Most of the grossest stuff is femme/femme too. And femme/femme that doesn’t read very “lesbian” in the way femme lesbians actually are, so it leads me to believe it might not be lesbians writing them.

[–]PenseePansyBio-Sex or Bust 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Lesbian kryptonite?

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Totally

[–]indeepshadowsBi woman 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That comment was really... bewildering. And I don't mean it in a bad way. I was just very surprised by the depth of the person's self-analysis, as well as the severity of the side effects she suffered from her hobby. I recognised some of those things in myself, too, but on a much milder level. I was very much into M/M fanfiction as a teen, too, but if memory serves, I grew disinterested at age 17 or something. I never liked any kind of anime or yaoi, though: I thought the stereotypes depicted were super obvious and annoying. I came back to fic in my late twenties because I had time to kill, and what's more fun than reading unrealistic romantic stories?

M/M is definitely not only for straight girls/women; I know for a fact I'm not the only one who wanted to experiment with same-sex relationships without putting my own self out there. There was also convenient plausible deniability there: if my homophobic mother would have seen the stuff I read, I could have just gone "I just really like men, what can I say?". I couldn't have explained F/F content away like that. I certainly thought I was working on my internalised homophobia back in my teenage years when I was reading all that stuff, and maybe it did help me a little bit. I don't know. I'm a grown ass woman in my thirties now, and reading F/F and M/M stories is pure entertainment to me.

I don't know what's happening in Japan and Korea, I'm afraid, but I doubt a lot of people are transitioning over there. They are very conservative societies in their own unique ways.

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Women into yaoi are not actually lesbians, I swear to god, I’ve met lesbians that say that and it turns out they end up transitioning or dating men. It’s an odd group.

[–]haveanicedaytoo💗💜💙 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Seriously I have so many questions about lesbians reading/watching yaoi and I have nowhere to ask. Many years ago I was curious to find the girl x girl version (yuri) but there was barely anything good. There was this cartoon I kind of liked "Onisama E" but there were "girl" girls, and girls that basically looked like tall feminine dudes and all the "girly" girls had crushes on them and it was just so very.... IDEK......... So if me, a bisexual is confused by this, I can see lesbians being turned off too, but how does a lady who has zero sexual attraction to guys end up reading cartoon porn comic books with naked guys having sex? (Also, I haven't looked in a long time, but I would LOVE recommendations for girl x girl manga type stuff.)

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Check on mangago.me under yuri or shoujo ai. But it’s really hard to find anything non-creepy.

And I for real don’t believe actual lesbians read yaoi. That’s just so nonsensical it’s stunning. Maybe if they are really really young or something.