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[–]greenish 52 insightful - 2 fun52 insightful - 1 fun53 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

I think slash (yaoi, m/m fan fiction) seriously fucked up my sexuality.

I started reading fanfic in my teens, when the internet was young. I was having a really hard time at school because I was suffering from serious mental illness due to abuse that no one knew about. This caused me to 'maladaptively daydream' a lot and dissociate from my body/present circumstances.

There were certain male characters I projected onto, because they shared some issues with me, in a metaphorical way, or acted out their anger at injustice. Never female characters, because being female didn't feel safe, and therefore wasn't an escape.

I stumbled across slash fanfic for these male characters, and was hooked. It was the 'foeyay' sort - in other words shipping them with their enemies. The relationship dynamics were crucial - they started off hating each other but were forced to work together against something more threatening, and so developed an appreciation for each other, discovered that there had been some preconceptions that were wrong, and ended up falling for each other. In other words the righting of injustices, misunderstood characters who were thought badly of finally being understood and offered love and acceptance, you know, emotional resolution. Magnetic stuff, to poor little outcast me at the time.

The male character I projected onto was usually shipped with a much higher status and more socially approved of male character. I guess I was vicariously seeking male approval, but didn't believe that I, as a girl, could ever achieve it, because I believed that no man would ever see or treat me as an equal. This was my "if I was male I could unlock this affection and respect between equals that I'm sure is available, but not to me" fantasy. Then - and this was the point, not any sort of attraction to men - I would be safe and protected and respected and admired, just as my favourite characters came to be.

I didn't want to read about sex involving a woman, because it felt like porn. Objectifying and degrading. It made me intensely uncomfortable. Fanfic involving M/F pairings often had romance novel type scenarios in them, and I was intensely put off by any whiff of male dominance towards a woman, or the female character actually being attracted to that. The presence of a female character in an erotic context instantly made me feel forced to identify with her perspective, and she would always be thinking and doing things that I never would, and found really alienating.

I got more and more into slash, and I kind of didn't develop a sexuality outside of that. I think there's a window of time where your sexuality develops, and I spent mine avoiding it by feeding myself virtual junk food specifically designed to create boundaries between my real, female body and my experience of sexuality.

In slash world, there is no misogyny, because women are periphery and barely exist. There is no shit and pain in anal sex. There are no STDs or pregnancy scares. Anatomy and sensation can work however you want.

It's written by women, for women. This was so important to me, as I thought I was exploring sexuality in a safe, risk free environment. I almost believed it was a feminist act - reclaiming the narrative of sexuality from men and objectifying them for a change. No actual men needed to be present, we could represent them as we wanted them to be, as we wished they were, have them treat the characters we identified with as we wished they would behave and feel towards us, and they weren't involved. Much better, safer and more satisfying than interacting with real men.

The discourse has more recently been about whether it's ethical for (presumably) straight women to appropriate gay men's experiences, but at the time we understood it to have nothing to do with real men or real attraction between men at all. It was all women using male vessels to express our desires that could not be met because we were women in this society.

Ultimately I think I wished to be loved by a man the way a woman stereotypically loves another woman, not the way a man stereotypically loves another man, but without the physicality of being female, because that's all wrapped up with embodiment, shame, and danger.

I did want to experience romance, passion, sensuality, acceptance, compassion, being cared for, etc... but I didn't want to be in my body, which had been violated and was vulnerable. I wanted to experience these things in a 'safe' body, and coming from another 'safe' body, not somebody else so horrifically vulnerable like myself.

That was the draw of slash, for me. The result was that it drew me deeper and deeper into dissociation from my body and mental illness. My sexuality never developed in a real world context and was stuck in the fictional, which is kind of like a fetish I guess. I have since stopped reading it, but it was really hard, like weaning off an addiction, and even years later theres just a hole where my sexuality should be.

[–]throwawayanylogic 18 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 0 fun19 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I'm so sorry you had this experience, but yours is definitely why I do not like seeing teens so involved in fandom and especially reading/writing/taking part in the adult fandom spaces of yaoi, m/m fic and art, etc. I wrote in another thread here that I'm an old fandom dinosaur, back from the days where access to fannish m/m fic and art - and also m/f explicit stuff - was VERY tightly controlled. You couldn't buy such fanzines or art at a convention or via the mail without showing a copy of your driver's license/other ID to prove you were over 18 or 21. Publishers were VERY concerned about getting in legal trouble for potentially "distributing pornography to minors". Anyone found to be underage was kicked off slash mailing lists, or not approved for membership to protected web archives.

In contrast, today? Everything is just OUT THERE online for all to see and read on tumblr, the big fic archives, twitter, etc (and if anything, teenagers yell at older fen that we should go away, that fandom is just for young people.) To me it's much like how porn can be so damaging to young minds by warping expectations of real life relationships and sex. Instead of learning to cope with the changes and challenges one goes through during puberty and the teen years, kids are escaping into fandom, projecting on characters (who aren't always or necessarily good role models), and deciding that if they "identify" with a male character that means they must be trans. It's very disturbing and sad to me.

[–]onemoredaydream 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's really common for middle schoolers (!!!) to be writing and consuming pornographic fic, and to also be fully fluent in the descriptive language of BDSM (knowing words for specific dynamics, etc). I think the first pornographic fic I read, I found when I was 12. As I posted elsewhere in thread, I got a habit very quickly, and would read pornographic fanfic every day, often for hours. This lasted until I was about 15 and forced myself to get some hobbies!

[–]Nona_Biba 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It was all women using male vessels to express our desires that could not be met because we were women in this society.

Agreed completely!

[–][deleted] 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Wow, your post has given me a lot to think about. I too grew up as a slash obsessed fangirl. Everything you've written resonates with me in ways I had never thought about.

The m/f relationships I saw in media, video games, and anime were not relatable. The female characters had no depth, they were written by men to be vacant cheerleaders for the male protagonists. For most of my life my concept of sexuality was as a non-participant, reading about companionship between fictional male characters. I identified as asexual for a long time.

I think there's a window of time where your sexuality develops, and I spent mine avoiding it by feeding myself virtual junk food specifically designed to create boundaries between my real, female body and my experience of sexuality.

I have wondered this exact thought before! I wonder if I'm messed up permanently.

I still don't quite understand myself. I don't fetishize real life gay men. I've never 'shipped' real living humans. It's strictly fictional characters, and I don't think they're characters I particularly identify with - I just like the dynamic they have with other characters.

Getting into my first relationship helped develop my sexuality a bit- I now have real life experience to draw from. I'm almost thirty, I'm married, have a house and full time job, but I know I'm still 'not quite right'. I'm still drawn to slash, usually slow burn fanfics that feature a tender and passionate relationship. Maybe because it's safe and loving and everyone is more or less equal, and I don't have to feel confronted with the displeasure that is being a woman in a romantic/sexual context.

You seem to have reflected a lot on this so I love to hear more of your thoughts! I'm still trying to figure myself out.

[–]radtionalfem 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm a 30-year-old who consumed massive amounts of slashfic from about age 12 to 25, and you perfectly described my experience and how my sexuality failed to develop (due to severe depression and suicidal self-loathing). It was NEVER about fantasizing about being a man or involved with a man, but indulging in romantic fantasies without the taint of misogyny or heterosexual power dynamics, or being forced to imagine myself in the situation I was reading about. I did not want to think about my body, or how I would react if a man touched me, or how I would feel if penetrated by a man. I still don't enjoy fiction about heterosexual romances because I can't tolerate the slightest hint of misogyny, male gaze, or a man coercing or hurting a woman, and because thinking about my body in a sexual context makes me feel sick.

Despite that, I could read femslash. I could easily separate myself from the story because there was no expectation that I would ever have sex with another woman, and so I didn't project that act onto my own body as I did when reading about heterosexual sex. A weird manifestation of comphet.

Fictional gay relationships feel like a relationship between equals, without all the cultural and biological baggage - they're just people who love each other, instead of a Man and a Woman. That is so very appealing to young women who are scared of everything related to heterosexuality. Personally, I sometimes wonder if I'm a repressed, sex-repulsed lesbian who spent years sublimating my weak desires through parasocial relationships with feminine gay men.

[–]onemoredaydream 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This is an amazingly insightful comment and it mirrors my own experiences with slash fiction in my teenage years! You have a level of self-awareness that I do not, and I found myself actually nodding along as I read your analysis.

Thankfully I made myself stop reading addictively when I was 15 or 16 (after a solid 2 years of straight-up, 3 hours a day of reading slash porn addiction) and it seems like my sexuality recovered once I was no longer fantasizing about odd scenarios all the time. I was also very into adversarial relationship dynamics, and reading about characters that hated each other but wanted to fuck each other and then often did, led me to having VERY poor understandings of what consent and communication looked like.