From the rules post

submitted by xanditAGAB (Assigned Gay at Birth) from self.LGBDropTheT

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[–]deliciousdogfoodmy name isnt a puppyplay reference i swear 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

It's not a point we've gotten to, but something people have forgotten nowadays. Two wrongs don't make a right, and while our anger is completely justified it's better spent making change rather than lashing out. Shit flinging is just what they want. They want us to become the bogeymen they've made us out to be.

[–][deleted] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

The thing is, they'll do that whether you do or not. I agree they should be different spaces, but there's no reason we ought to denigrate people who need a space to vent either. They celebrate people like us, critics of gender, being punished all the time. Yet there's little space for such critics to celebrate them getting their comeuppance. I don't see why not link those spaces, when they've more than earned that animosity.

[–]deliciousdogfoodmy name isnt a puppyplay reference i swear 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I'm quite tired, so I'll do my best to articulate my point and apologies if I don't quite get it across right.

Just making sure we're on the right page because I made a mistake when responding to your message, I'm not saying we shouldn't express our displeasure at all the homophobia we've been made to deal with. I'm responding specifically to the part of the rule that forbids deliberate mocking and shaming, which wasn't actually referenced in your comment so the point I'm making is largely moot.

The above considered I do want to explain why I don't think that kind of retaliation will help, and why it may potentially be counterproductive to link it to this space, which has a very different motive.

I know that there's a lot of very justified anger for their insufferable smugness as they celebrate the censorship of the people they've spent so long trying to beat down. I feel it too, and I'm really just trying to make sure I don't say or do anything I'll regret later.

I'm of the opinion that the best hope that we have for all of this insanity to end is for all this fetid garbage to be aired out in the court of public opinion. They intentionally keep things as obfuscated as they can in order to fool others into thinking our anger is hatred, and that our indignance is fragility.

Eventually that bubble will burst, and I'm of the worry that if we stoop down to their level and start trading blows then it's going to be much easier for them to spin things in their favor, because people who go looking will be able to find communities dedicated to laughing at their misfortune, in the same way they laugh at ours. It's not a good look.

When I was growing up, I was the target of a few of those types of bullies at school. The types that'd put you down constantly, then when you retaliate paint you as the bad guy to the teacher, pointing to "evidence" they've goaded you into giving them. The real nasty and manipulative type. The radicals attacking us are nothing more than that. Manipulative, nasty, self absorbed bullies who specialize in bold faced lies.

The more that we give them to work with, the harder it'll be when the coin drops and both sides have to be examined properly. Document and criticize all of their attacks on us, yes. But if we celebrate their misfortunes and participate in ad hominem, it could well come back to bite us in the ass later even if its not associated with a risk of being banned for fake "hate speech".

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Sofar as pointlessly denigrating goes, I would agree, in that it creates an equivalence of misbehavior. But sofar as celebrating the misfortunes of the people denigrating you, of that I am not so sure. Do you honestly believe these people will resign themselves to seeing reason, and to agreeing their ideas of themselves do not give them right and license to force others to see likewise? I do not anymore. I think these are exactly those kinds of bullies who will not only never change, but if defeated in one avenue will simply seek in desperation another to be supreme over. Such is the plight of the narcissist: Always seeking more attention wherever it comes from.

As for what must be done? I haven't a clue. I think people have always been this way and the internet just gives them license to act out visibly. For my part I can hardly pretend I don't enjoy when they get some smidgen of comeuppance for this shit.

[–]joogabahGay shows the way 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Manipulative, nasty, self absorbed bullies who specialize in bold faced lies.

If that statement is ok, I'm not sure what is prohibited. But policing speech is one of the main gripes I have about the trans movement. They are illiberal bigots. To reproduce that atmosphere of "watch what you say or how you say it" is off putting, especially now.