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[–]MarkTwainiac 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Not to defend Jenner, but I find the claim that

Bruce is a know-nothing

About the unfairness of allowing males into girls' & women's sports to be unjustified and unfair. Athletes don't get to the pinnacle of sports like Jenner did without learning and coming to understand a great deal about human physiology and what male and female bodies are capable of achieving in athletics - and other contexts too. Just because athletes are highly muscled and physically talented doesn't mean they're all brawn and no brain as the stereotypes about them say.

Also, I think that Jenner knows a lot about the difference in male and female physiology coz of his "lived experience" as a heterosexual man of more than 70 with autogynephilia who has fathered many children and spent his whole adult life until very recently attached at the hip, as it were, and dependent on female partners.

After all, Jenner isn't just some 20-year-old AGP whose experience of sex, sexual relationships and life in general comes mainly from gaming, watching porn, anime, fantasy & fapping. Jenner is a dad/stepdad of 10, grandfather of more than 20 (at last count), and a man who spent his adult entire life from circa age 20 until his mid-late 60s partnered/married to women. Yes, Jenner was serially married to different women, but tellingly there was little space in between his different relationships/marriages with women. Until he started pretending to be a woman himself, Jenner as an adult always had a female partner/wife - he never lived alone as a single man/bachelor without a female partner close by to lean on until he went "trans." In fact, his opposition to gay marriage has always seemed to be at least partially based on his belief that it's the natural order for men to need and be dependent on women - that behind every successful man must be a woman.

ETA: In looking up Jenner's HS & college athletic career, I found out that his college degree is in Physical Education.

[–]GConly 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Athletes don't get to the pinnacle of sports like Jenner did without learning and coming to understand a great deal about human physiology and what male and female bodies are capable of achieving in athletics

Exactly. I think he can probably sense the way this will probably turn out, long term.

That and not every TW believes the "there's no difference after HRT" bollocks. I've seen a fair few wince at the TRAs spouting it.

[–]MarkTwainiac 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes, there are quite a number of TIMs who say that even after many years of THT (T suppression + CSH) they still retain many physical features that give them an enormous advantage over women in sports.

It's also the case that after "transition" the views of some heterosexual AGPs who've "transitioned" in middle age or later grow more moderate. A common pattern is that they first "transition," they are insistent that now they are "real women" and must be seen as such. But as the initial high wears off and reality sets in, some realize that they whilst they might have altered their appearance to outwardly resemble "real women" they are still not really women. Jan Morris and Renee Richards, two AGP dads who "transitioned" in their 40s in the 1970s, both modified their views over the years. As Debbie Hayton, another heterosexual father who transitioned in his 40s, has done more recently. I suspect that being fathers and grand fathers might have something to do with it.

The other thing that's key here is that Jenner's comments were about schools sports specifically - which are what all the bills recently proposed in the US state legislatures concern. In the US, males have been most successful so far in invading female scholastic sports specifically. And not just any sports, but the particular area of sports in which Jenner became an Olympian - track & field. As a decathlete, Jenner no doubt is acutely aware of how unfair it is to have allowed two boys/men - Terrry Miller & Andraya Yearwood - to dominate in HS sprints in CT and the Northeast, CeCe Telfer to use "transition" to go from being ranked 390th as a man to becoming the No 1 national women's champion in the NCAA D2 400m hurdles, and for Montana runner June Eastwood to use "transition" his senior year in college to clean up in women's cross country after failing to live up to his promise as a male runner in his first three years at university. (Eastwood, one of the best male HS runners in Montana history & a statewide champion, was plagued by injuries in college and so went from being one of the state's star athletes with golden boy status to being just another mediocre male turning in disappointing performances. I have no doubt that his decision to "transition" was a way of coping with his fall from grace.)

As one of the USTAF's leading lights and a longtime trustee of the USTAF foundation, Jenner also has to be aware that track & field is one of the sports areas Title IX has had the most greatest impact on, and that vast numbers of girls & women have benefitted to a remarkable extent. A disproportionately large number of girls & women who have gone to college on sports scholarships since Title IX was implemented have been track & field athletes. Moreover, a large number of the girls & women to become standouts & scholarship winners in track & field have been racial minorities, specifically African American.

Since the "controversy" over trans-identified males in female scholastic sports blew up since 2017 Miller & Yearwood started trouncing girls in CT, at at New England and Tristate regionals, in 2017, Jenner must have realized that if he had come out as "trans" in HS or actually been a girl in HS he would not have had any chance to get a college scholarship (his was in football) or to become a star & Olympic gold medalist in track & field. Because Jenner went to HS & college before Title IX. As a result, if he had been born a girl, there would have been no school sports for him, no chance to shine, and no scholarship opportunities. If he had been a "trans girl" in HS or college, there would have been no girls or women's sports teams for him to muscle in on, no girls or women for him to trounce.

[–]BEB[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm talking about Jenner being a "know-nothing" as in "There's no way in hell he's qualified to be the governor of California."

Abigail's remarks are about Jenner's run for governor, rather than his knowledge of being a TiM, or sports.

California already had Ah-Nuld, who would still, sadly, seem like George Washington compared to Bruce.

Abigail is an extremely intelligent woman, so to see her get taken in by Jenner's celebrity bullshit, but also to see her send the message out that she believes that a TiM should be in a position of power in a state where the Transgender Agenda has done such incredible damage already (jail for "misgendering", TiMs in women's prisons/ nursing home & long term disability facilities) is really disappointing to me.