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[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

In many places on earth you won't see women even in daylight unless they are fully covered due to veiling dictates/customs.

Hadn't considered anything beyond my modern Western perspective, honestly. Hm. I'm going to have to think about that. It's interesting when we look at female humans who have hidden estrus, where our lesser, mammalian neighbors overwhelmingly give off very specific indications when it's time. I'm guessing this is one of the reasons why human sexuality can go so far off the rails. It moves away from such a simple stimulus and response. It also means sexual desire has to be, generally speaking, omnipresent in human males. But when you take the stimulus that heterosexual men are evolutionary left with--woman, and clad them in disguising garb--they're not left with much. Where exactly is this omnipresent desire directed?

But women were far from "everywhere" in the daylight hours of the everyday lives of lots of men.

Yet the race propagated itself. Perhaps I should not have said "everywhere." What I was trying to indicate is that the overwhelming majority of the population was likely to encounter a woman at least once a week.

I definitely don't think [paraphilias] can be said to be universal female experiences.

Well they're probably more prevalent and varied in men, which isn't to say they're universal in men, but I wouldn't go so far to say that women can never have them, that would contradict plenty of case reports, at the very least. I'm not anywhere close to being satisfied with the quality and quantity of research being done on them. I think it's important, from many perspectives, to understand them.

Whereas the point of today's porn seems to be to cause female people pain, humiliation and degradation.

While I'm certainly aware of the list of things you indicated above, (except "rosebudding"--learned that today while reading a different forum tracking the Aimee Challenor subject. Wish I could unsee that, but my scientific mind is going to be churning for a while on how anyone could find that appealing,) I just sauntered over to (NSFW) pornhub.com at the behest of replying to this. In terms of recent popular content, it's bereft of those things. Does not exactly focus on female agency or pleasure, but it's not sadomasochistic by any stretch of the imagination. Pain, humiliation, and degradation is basically the textbook definition of sadomasochism. If all the material was that, then I could certainly see how you might come to the conclusion that paraphilias are universal male experiences. (Perhaps this is due to the recent "purge" that transpired at the behest of credit card processors.) I never saw that material pop up in Reddit's /r/all (and they also quietly removed any NSFW subreddits from that feed very recently.) https://subredditstats.com/ has some good statistics made readily available, but again, nothing popular strikes me as being in the SM category. The popular content is very basic. Certainly I can find that material on both of those websites, but it seems I have to go "out of my way" to find it. Which is why I think that your circa 1980's perception of what was around then might be a little skewed. I've held in my hands crumbling circulations from that era that were directed at a sadomasochistic audience, including large sections dedicated to personal adverts, as well as having done some research into the sexual behavior of the Weimar Republic, particularly what transpired in Berlin. They got up to stuff. Still do. Sexual excesses do seem to predate the upheaval of nations, as noted by Camille Paglia.

I am concerned however that young people will see that sort of material, that very much does exist, and wrongly think "this must be what sex is," and want no part of that. I've seen this cited in some anecdotes of FTM transition. There's no contextualization of pornography. And many other exceptions I take with it. (I'd also note that the inverse is true, there is pornography with men being the subjects of pain, humiliation, and degradation, but it is still designed for a male audience. And I'm certainly aware of the content that humiliates via way of emasculation and feminization, gee, tell us what you really think of women. Still trying to wrap my head around that one.)

[–]MarkTwainiac 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Your admission that you

Hadn't considered anything beyond my modern Western perspective, honestly. Hm.

Is reflective of one of the problems in these convos. Did you really not study history in school or ever have any interest in time periods prior to you own? You never studied or had an interest in geography, anthropology, comparative religions, foreign cultures and politics?

In your own geographic area, you never knew anyone with decidedly different customs and beliefs? You never went to a China town, a Little Italy, as Korea town, a Shabbat candle lighting, a kielbasa festival, a Kwanza celebration, a sushi restaurant, a St Patrick's day, a seder, a Mass, a baptism, a Brazilian carnivale, an orthodox synagogue, a mosque, a sikh temple, an Eid-al-fitr at the end Ramadam, a concert put on by Tibetan Buddhist monks? And so on...

I know since COVID reared its head in late 2019/early 2020, global travel has pretty much stopped. But prior to then, you never travelled or thought of travelling abroad?

I don't mean to be critical of you personally. It's just that I don't understand the blinkered perspective you've admitted you have that is only cognizant of your own culture/experience and time period. I grew up with an entirely different views. Loved history and couldn't get enough of different cultures and viewpoints.

I just sauntered over to (NSFW) pornhub.com at the behest of replying to this. In terms of recent popular content, it's bereft of those things.

I don't think you know how the internet works.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Well on the topic of my modern Western perspective, you're taking me a little bit too literally. On all the topics of which you brought up, I would mark myself generally better than my peers, perhaps lesser on the foreign culture, however. That's true. Comparative religion, yes. I'm especially familiar with pre-Socratic Greek traditions, and am educated in analysis of Abrahamic text and am fond of all things antediluvian. On the topic of geography, it is one of my BA's. Politics is my sports.

That all being said, I'm not necessarily going to plug every single perspective I have into a saidit discussion. That's the point.

I don't think you know how the internet works.

In a technological sense, I know a great deal how it works, but I know that's not what you meant. Elaborate?