How do you handle women who are in support of "trans Rights" and say that they don't feel threatened by TIMs?

submitted by Kai_Decadence from self.GenderCritical

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[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Back when I was a libfem, I used to scoff at the concern of men in women's bathrooms as conservative fearmongering. I equated it to the gay panic in those old timey PSAs warning about gay men hiding in playgrounds waiting to snatch kids. What changed my mind is realizing that most TW are NOT harmless, homosexual men with zero sexual interest in women, and went far enough to cut off their penises just to use the woman's restroom. The majority of them are the same heterosexual men with intact penises, the only difference is that they are wearing dresses.

The second was realizing male and female socialization exists. Women are conditioned to submit to authority and be care takers to any and every cause that demands our attention. Even at the expense of our own safety and happiness. I had to be the guardian of the helpless gay drag queens who only wanted to pee without getting bullied by cismen in the Men's restroom. Only they dont just want to pee. They are still entitled, heterosexual men who often talk about how sexually thrilling (euphoria) whenever they are validated by women. Such as going into their spaces (pushing boundaries), or even being referred to in female pronouns. Eventually, I broke that conditioning and can stand up for my self and my own safety, and that Im allowed to keep the (penis free) spaces designed for me. If their feelings matter, then MY feelings matter.

Any reason I would not want "cis" men in my spaces are the same reason I do not want TW in my spaces. Because they are the same thing.

[–]MarkTwainiac 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

But many homosexual TIMS are incredible misogynists filled with hatred, envy and resentment towards girls and women. These men might not want to fuck us, but they want to become us. So whilst they might leer at us and inspect us in a different way than het men do, they still will look girls and women up and down in an unseemly, prurient way that's bound to make many female people extremely uncomfortable.

Also, most gay TIMs are incredibly superficial and looks-obsessed, and they tend to be extremely judgmental and ageist about other people's appearance. Gay TIMs tend to look down on the majority of girls and women for having natural human female bodies that haven't been altered with cosmetic surgeries and procedures to look like Instagram models, porn stars or Barbie dolls - and they are scathing and scornful about those of us who fail to conform to their very narrow standards of "feminine" beauty standards.

I've written on here before about my personal experience of being subjected to vile sexual harassment by a gay TIM* street prostitute and hustler in my neighborhood in NYC for daring to be pregnant in public 30 years ago. I've also written before about how in the 1990s a group of gay male TIMs* (most of whom did "sex work," but some of whom also did drag) made a huge stink over not being able to join the women's-only gym I used to go to. When these gay males who said they "felt like" women were declined, they mounted a relentless campaign threatening the owners (who happened to be lesbians) with lawsuits and tying up the phone lines, making continual stinks at the front desk so that the atmosphere in the place became very unpleasant and scary for all. These gay men who wanted to be women and said they had the brains of women would also stand outside the entrance to the building during the hours the gym offered childcare for kids under 7 just to say and shout disgusting things to many of the gym's members coming or going with small children in tow - and sometimes these men who wanted to be seen as women would follow us into the elevator for the fun of using their towering male bodies and male aggressiveness to menace women up close and personal in a small, enclosed space.

*Back then, these men were known as transvestites, or TV males, but today would be considered "transgender" or "transwomen." But whatever they were called, they were horrible, abusive, entitled men full of rage and hate for women who happened to be gay. And they were tough as nails, the kinds of guys who kept razor blades in their wigs/weaves and carried knives and were quick to lash out physically if someone gave them side-eye. It was quite common to seem them coming to blows with one another out in public.

Sorry, as someone who has been close friends and at close quarters to a lot of gay men for 50 years, I don't think it's fair to suggest that they are less entitled than heterosexual men. Most gay men are incredibly entitled coz they're all socialized as males - which is one of the reasons they were so effective in articulating their anger and mobilizing on their own behalf during the AIDS crisis (with the help, of course, of a lot of other people like me).

Moreover, most gay TIMs are incredibly narcissistic and arrogant, particularly nowadays. They are just as likely to use their male bodies and male entitlement to try to dominate and intimidate girls and women, and to take up too much room and behave like colonizers in female spaces. Look at the way gay TIMs like CeCe Telfer, Andraya Yearwood and Terry Miller have lorded it over girls and women in the girls' and women's sports they took it upon themselves to invade and dominate in. Listen to the awful things they have said about the girls and women they've competed against, particularly the ones who've raised objections to their presence and participation.

For every sweet, non-threatening TIM who is fun to be around and wouldn't hurt a fly and genuinely likes women and has respect for us as human beings like the lovely guy in Breakfast on Pluto, there are many more who are not like that. At all. Especially today.

Also, being homosexual, or working as a drag artist, doesn't magically make any gay males "helpless." Being same-sex attracted does not change one's biology, height, build, grip strength, musculature, speed or whatever. A gay male can much more easily defend himself against a physical attack by another man than a woman of the same height, weight, fitness level and age could. Hands down, no contest. All the gay men I know find equating being gay with being "helpless" to be an offensive stereotype.

Similarly, I think it's dangerous to think that just because men have zero sexual interest in women means this renders them "harmless" to girls and women, and to other males as well. Not all assaults are sexual, and not all crimes are assaults. Gay men have committed all sorts of crimes - muggings, robbery, burglary, fraud, battery, murders - against other members of their own sex and the opposite sex.

[–]SanityIsGC 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The one thing that seems to be throwing a wrench into the works is that a large majority of straight men aren't interesting dating gay TIMs. In the last two days, I have seen three ChangeMyViews OPs on Reddit by straight men stating that straight men are not bigoted for not wanting to date transwomen.

Gay TIMs can't get laws passed forcing men to date them so I wonder how this is going to play out. TIMs can scream all they want about bigotry but throwing accusations is not going to change natural attraction.