I was right: Martina & the other sportswomen trying to compromise w TiMs are the Vichy French (women giving up other women's rights)

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[–]MarkTwainiac 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

And I've read that in the early days of some sex-integrated universities, female students were responsible for doing the male students' laundry and domestic tasks.

That's very interesting. Can you share links or citations of where you read that? And what period (century, decades) do you mean when you say "in the early days of some sex-integrated universities"?

In the US, colleges/universities started going co-educational in the 1830s. Many all-male colleges/unis long had sister schools for females and male and female students attended many classes together: Brown-Pembroke, Harvard-Radcliffe, Columbia-Barnard, Haverford-Bryn Mawr, Morehouse-Spelman... and so on.

I've never heard of female students at any US (or UK) colleges/unis being made responsible for doing the male students' laundry and domestic tasks, so I am genuinely interested.

Especially given how back-breaking and time-consuming doing laundry was historically, I can't imagine females privileged enough to attend a residential college/uni did their own laundry, much less the laundry of male students. Especially in eras when domestic servants were common, what would be the point of going to college/uni and spending your precious time there doing domestic chores and laundry for other people?

Most residential colleges and unis historically relied on janitorial and cleaning staff and porters to take care of the physical plant, including dorms, and on commercial laundry services to provide clean sheets and towels every week - and usually commercial laundries would do students' personal washing too if they elected to avail themselves of, and pay for, that service. Just as commercial laundries still do today. That's how it was when I was in college in the 1970s, and when my parents went to college/uni just before WW2. When I went to college, there were washing machines and dryers in the dorms - but that wasn't the case for earlier generations.

My impression is that persons of both sexes privileged enough to be attending residential institutions of higher learning traditionally relied on working class persons employed by the college/uni to clean their rooms and common areas like bathrooms and hallways, take out the trash, and on commercial services that contracted with the institution to do laundry. Some students also mailed their personal laundry home (presumably to be done by domestic servants under the direction of their mothers, or perhaps by the mothers themselves).

Also, all the female professors no matter what they taught were relegated to the women's studies department, which had pros and cons.

I don't think there were any "women's studies departments" or even courses until the 1970s, and those were explicitly feminist. Can you explain more what you mean? Thanks

[–]WildApples 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That's very interesting. Can you share links or citations of where you read that? And what period (century, decades) do you mean when you say "in the early days of some sex-integrated universities"?

Unfortunately, it has been such a long time since I came across this information that I do not recall the sources. I did just find this article, though: "The clearly defined roles required that men studied Greek and Latin and prepared for the ministry, while the women cooked, washed, and cleaned. In fact, 1837 policy at Oberlin dismissed female students from Monday classes so they could do the male students’ laundry (Tuttle, 2004)." [https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/EJ1062478.pdf](Link)

I don't think there were any "women's studies departments" or even courses until the 1970s, and those were explicitly feminist. Can you explain more what you mean?

Actually, I may have erred slightly. As I think about it further, it was the home economics department that female professors were relegated to. So a female professor of chemistry would be housed in the home economics department instead of in the science department with all the male chemistry professors. When this sex-based system of organization broke down and the popularity of home economics as a discipline waned, remaining home economics professors were rolled into the newly formed women's studies departments.

I believe I got this from a podcast or NPR radio segment, and it contained a very fascinating look at the merits and detractions of this pedagogical sex segregation from the female professors' perspective. It is a shame that I cannot remember it. If I can locate the source, I will let you know.