all 27 comments

[–]MarkTwainiac 25 insightful - 1 fun25 insightful - 0 fun26 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

So a small group of former ultra-elite, world-class athletes whose ages range from 59 to 74 have decided that female sports being exclusively for female people as it was during their day is now an "extreme position." It's a textbook example of one group "pulling up the ladder" behind themselves - and giving a good kick to those reaching for the bottom rung while they're at it.

BTW, I'm not being ageist in noting how old they are. I am 66 myself. I'm just observing that the people who've come up with this particular policy in the name of "inclusiveness" seem to have taken into account the views of a very narrow age range, namely their own.

Nancy Hogshead-Makar, billed as "one of the leaders" of this "let's throw girls and women today and in the future under the bus coz we all had our chance already" policy group, is quoted as saying two contradictory things:

1) “While the details of President Biden’s executive order remain fuzzy, asking women — no, requiring them — to give up their hard-won rights to compete and be recognized in elite sport, with equal opportunities, scholarships, prize money, publicity, honor and respect, does the cause of transgender inclusion no favors."

And

2) “It engenders justifiable resentment, setting back the cause of equality throughout society. And either extreme position – full inclusion or full exclusion in sport – will make life much harder for transgender people. We must make sport a welcoming place for all.”

Note that while in 2), Hogshead-Makar says female sports must be welcoming of males, in 1) she and her fellow former world-class athletes say an exception must be made for elite sports in which girls and women of their own athletic calibre can win scholarships, prize money, publicity, honor, respect as well as highly lucrative sponsorships and cushy, well-paid gigs as media commentators, product endorsers and lecturers.

In other words, all these former ultra-elite athletes are taking the position that the only female sports that deserve to be ring-fenced by sex and kept solely for females are the ultra-elite, national and world class level of sports in which they all personally excelled and had their own chance.

Talk about elitism! This is elitism - and sexism against non-elite girls and women in sports - on steroids.

I've rephrased the quote from Nancy Hogshead-Makar to reveal the position that and others in this group of former ultra-elite athletes are really taking:

"either extreme position – full inclusion or full exclusion of males in female sport – will make life much harder for males with gender identity issues or who just want to game the system to get a leg up coz they are cheats who desire to win at all costs.

"Elite level sports in which I and all the other members of this policy group competed, made names for ourselves and financially benefitted must of course keep the female category for females only. But we must make all other girls' and women's sports - you know the sports for second-rate and third-tier females who aren't as special as us elite athletes - a welcoming place for all males who claim to have opposite sex gender identities.

"Coz in the grand scheme of things, equal opportunity in sports is only for elite female athletes - lower-caste girls and women have to suck it up and put male wants and demands first.”

To cap it off, Hogshead- Maker also said this policy suggestion is just the beginning from this group, that more concessions to male wants and demands will doubtless be asked of "non elite" female athletes in the future:

"...proposing federal legislation to protect biological females and create a women’s sports environment that is welcoming, respectful and celebratory for trans girls and women is only one small step."

Why the fuck should girls' and women's sports be "welcoming, respectful and celebratory for trans girls"?

And where on earth do Hogshead-Makar and the others of my own generation who came up with this appalling policy get the nerve to say that the concessions that they are demanding current and all future generations of female athletes make to mollycoddle males is just "one small step"? It only seems a small step to those who don't have to take it themselves coz their careers in competitive sports were over a long time ago.

The people who came up with this have no skin in the game any more. On the contrary, to me they seem to be motivated by a desire to be seen as kind, reasonable, judicious, magnanimous and progressive. In other words, it comes off as virtue signaling.

IMHO, it is not the place of this group of people in my age bracket - or any other - to give away the rights of all female people of younger and future generations. Nor is it the place of a group of former ultra-elite athletes to decree from on high that girls and women who are less athletically talented and privileged than this officious group was/is must forevermore give up their right to fair play in order to a) meet the demands of selfish males and b) ensure that the small, select group of females talented and lucky enough to compete at elite levels can continue to enjoy the sort of level playing field that girls and women of lesser talent and luck are supposed to do without.

I truly do hope this is being put forward as a ploy, as a way of showing that even the most "reasonable" concessions will never be enough to placate male trans athletes - who are already arguing that making them lower their testosterone to be eligible for female sports "is the legal and pharmacological equivalent of female genital mutilation." Coz otherwise, the elitism of this policy - and the superiority of those who cooked it cup - comes off as unconscionable.

[–]VioletRemi 15 insightful - 2 fun15 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

If such policy was in place during those who you named - they would never even had a chance to become elite athletes they are now in the first place, and would not enjoy being rich either.

[–]BEB[S] 18 insightful - 2 fun18 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

The part I find objectionable in what these otherwise wonderful women athletes are suggesting is that the implication is that it's up to women to compromise our sports for transgender athletes.

We all have to constantly make tough choices in life and TiMs can choose not to take hormones and then compete with their fellow men.

Instead, these women athletes are telling women who tell men to sort their own shit out that our position is "extreme" - no, it's not. Why should women sacrifice so that men can "live their truth"?

Women fought to have sports; it's not our fucking problem what men who think they're women want. TiMs need to sort out their own sports issues themselves.

Here is what I find objectionable about what these women athletes are proposing. The speaker is Nancy Hogshead-Makar, a Title IX attorney and one of the leaders of the Women’s Sports Policy Working Group that proposed the compromise:

"...either extreme position – full inclusion or full exclusion in sport – will make life much harder for transgender people. We must make sport a welcoming place for all.”

Fuck that noise. Women's sports are for women; that is not an "extreme" position. Men can sort out their own shit.

We are not their fucking babysitters or mamas. Women are not on Earth to kiss men's boo-boos and make them feel better.

[–]Finnegan7921 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

The funny thing is that the compromises they are suggesting would never fly with the T's. It would deny them the ability to hit the age of 30, discover their womanhood, enter women's sport, and dominate.

[–]BEB[S] 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Maybe that's the real, hidden agenda behind these women athletes' thoughts: when TiM activists refuse even reasonable measures it will expose which side in this discussion is impossible to please. And it's not women.

What got me was the proposal that transgender athletes results could be handicapped i.e., that they would compete against women but their official places might be dropped to reflect their male advantage.

As a former university athlete myself, I can only imagine how I and my teammates would have felt to participate in a competition where a TiM clearly won, but we were given our places because the TiM was handicapped; it would not be a good feeling.

Women athletes are athletes for many reasons, but one of them is the sense of achievement that you and other women did your best, and the best (fastest, strongest, whatever) woman won. A TiM outpacing you by seconds, even if they didn't officially beat you, would be deflating and demoralizing and I think a lot of female high school and college athletes would drop out.

That being said, the sports issues is peak transing record numbers of people, especially in sports-mad America, so if it's a crack in the door these women athletes are seeking, then I wish them well.

[–]kwallio 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I used to run track and crossing the finish line first is a great feeling. Having a dude way out in front while I"m running on the track would have been humiliating. This is a shitty proposal. If intersex or trans people want to have a sports career they should update the paraolympics or the special olympics so that trans people can go.

[–]BEB[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This is just a plain War on Women. On everything we fought for, on our self-esteem, on our mental and physical health, on our ability to learn how to compete in the world, even on the words used to describe us - governments, corporations, etc., are trying to destroy us.

[–]censorshipment 6 insightful - 6 fun6 insightful - 5 fun7 insightful - 6 fun -  (15 children)

Women always concede - unless they hate men - so this shouldn't be surprising. You have to at least hate the thought of men being where they don't belong in order to stand firm in your position. Hate is the driving force. Use it wisely.

[–]BEB[S] 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

I don't hate men: I actually get along great with most men and throughout my life have had very close male friends.

But that doesn't mean I'm going to let men LARPing as women run roughshod over the rights that I myself remember women not having in my lifetime. Martina and Donna, and every woman who was a sentient being before Title IX should be ashamed of themselves if they support this "compromise."

I don't know how old Nancy Hogshead-Makar is, but she's a Title IX attorney, which makes her capitulation all the more dangerous because now the gender lobby will point to her and say, "Look, she's a famous athlete AND a Title IX attorney and she thinks that women saying NO to men in women's sports is an extreme position."

[–]MarkTwainiac 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Martina and Donna, and every woman who was a sentient being before Title IX should be ashamed of themselves if they support this "compromise."

You'd think this. But neither Martina or Donna had sports careers that were dependent on, or affected by, Title IX.

Hogshead-Makar is 59. But she did not need Title IX coz as a elite swimmer from childhood, her sports career wasn't dependent any scholastic sports programs. Like most swimmers, and athletes in a lot of other sports, she came up through a system that existed - and still exists - entirely or largely apart from the federally-funded US school system, particularly public schools. She was scouted as Olympic material at age 11, hand-picked by one of the best coaches in the USA for special training by him, was a national champion at 12, and left home in HS to live at and train with the swim team Florida State University in preparation for the Olympics. It's not clear how much time she spent in "regular" US schools.

I'm writing up a bit about each of the people in this policy group that shows most of them had athletic careers that had nothing to do with Title IX - which, after all, affects not all sports in the US, but only scholastic sports in institutions that get federal funds. None of the myriad sports that exist entirely or mostly apart from schools in the US, particularly at the elite levels, were affected by Title IX one way or the other.

[–]BEB[S] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Thanks for doing that - where will your piece be published?

I was not an elite athlete or anything close, but I was an athlete and practicing my sport has kept me sane for the decades since I started casually as a girl. I am so angry that these women, who I think might be well-meaning (at least Martina I think is) could really harm girls' participation in sports, from the casual to the very serious.

Title IX made a big difference for girls at my schools because we got equipment to play sports. And not just in athletics: in my district, Title IX meant that finally girls and boys were allowed to take classes originally restricted to the opposite sex.

Every day seems to bring a fresh blow to the rights of American women and girls, but this blow is especially bitter because it's women doing it, and their participation will lend credence to the gender movement's truly unsound arguments about men in women's sports.

[–]MarkTwainiac 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

I'm writing it up for here, LOL, and will post it soon. Maybe I'll try to put all my comments together in less wordy and enraged form and get it published somewhere. Fat chance, huh? But right now I am so furious I can barely think or see straight.

BTW, by Donna in your comment I assumed you meant de Varona - but what I said applies as well to Donna Lopiano.

I graduated from HS the month Title IX was made law, so it didn't make a difference to me personally. And since for college/uni I was in the first class of women at a previously all male school, we women had to build all our college sports programs from scratch - but Title IX did give us clout to do that and to argue against all the discrimination we faced and obstacles put in our way. However, Title IX had a huge impact on the treatment my younger sister and her friends got in school. Suddenly, girls in lower and middle school in our district started getting PE and doing things like running track and learning sports, whereas when I was in lower and middle school only the boys got PE - the girls got recess on the tarmac where we jumped rope, played hopscotch and played an ad hoc form of handball by whacking Pensie Pinkie balls or Spaldeens on a brick wall, LOL.

Fortunately, I had opportunity to do a ton of sports and sporting activities outside school: swimming, diving, water ballet, tennis, badminton, bowling, ice skating, roller skating, alpine skiing, distance bicycling and so on. I got a WSI and worked as a lifeguard, did some ski racing and taught skiing too. But I always regretted not having the opportunity for any school sports. My brother was a big school jock and went to college on a full athletic ride; I often wished I'd gotten the same chance. But in any event, I'd never be elite like the athletes in this policy group, the quislings.

[–]BEB[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Your comments are a treasure trove of information. Do you keep them in a safe place? Is there a website that would provide a host for them?

Self-publish - Your work needs to be seen!

I meant de Varona, but I couldn't remember how to spell her last name and couldn't be bothered to look it up. I used to have a lot of respect for her as an athlete and just wonder how she can't see what she's doing to girls, because most female swimmers have to start very young if they even want to compete at university. Why would they start if their chances are stymied, even before puberty?

[–]MarkTwainiac 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Thank you very much. I appreciate your kind words, and am glad to be of service.

I am planning to start a website, or a substack or something like it. I am thinking of calling the site or page The Stunning and Brave New World Order: Reflections on Sexual Politics Past & Present - or something like that. What you think?

[–]BEB[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Do a substack and get paid for your work!

I like the title a lot, but would go with a shorter one, or one where you can use just the letters, like the Herzog/Singal podcast "Blocked & Reported," which very accurately describes what the podcast is about and which they shorten to BAR.

Also, people have much shorter attention spans now, and your work is very rich in detail, so maybe do a tl;dr synopsis of each of your pieces with the gist for casual browsers, and then below it have the full piece available for researchers, journalists, and others who want the full dig?

Those are just thoughts; I'm sure you will do what's right for you and I'm sure it will be excellent.

I am very happy that you are using your talents and work ethic on a lasting contribution to the history of this crazy time, as well as on giving younger women an excellent background of feminist history before it's rewritten, like trans activists rewrote gay activism!

[–]MarkTwainiac 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Good points! I will take your feedback on board. Thank you.

[–]SilenceThem_Consume 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm not that OP - but I think that sounds like a great title for your upcoming books, Twainiac!! ;)

[–]censorshipment 6 insightful - 6 fun6 insightful - 5 fun7 insightful - 6 fun -  (3 children)

The people you're fighting against hate you and will always win because you don't hate them enough to fight as hard as they do.

[–]BEB[S] 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

You obviously haven't met me ;-)

But yes, I don't hate - I get mad and I do something about it.

[–]censorshipment 2 insightful - 6 fun2 insightful - 5 fun3 insightful - 6 fun -  (1 child)

Being mad isn't really enough, especially compared to your enemy's anger.

[–]BEB[S] 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't consider individual TiMs my enemy, especially the ones with genuine dysphoria. I still don't think they're women and still don't want them in women's spaces, but I do feel for them.

I consider the gender lobby the enemy of women, of gay men, of children, of parents, of biology and of free speech. That is what needs to be defeated because it really will be a matter of life and death for some members of the above-mentioned groups.

[–]MarkTwainiac 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Women always concede - unless they hate men

This isn't true. A lot of women have many men in our lives that we like and love and still we are perfectly capable of standing firm. Some of us are mothers of men, yet still can stand up for our own rights and the rights of our sex.

Hate is the driving force.

Maybe for you it is, but not for others. For many of us the driving force is self-esteem, an ingrained sense of fairness and a whole lot of life experience.

[–]MarkTwainiac 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I looked at biographical information on the members of the group who were named in the USA article as the ones who came up with this atrocious policy recommendation to see how many were affected by Title IX - a law that doesn't affect all sports in the US, only the scholastic sports programs in US educational institutions that receive federal funds. Here's what I found:

Nancy Hogshead-Makar (born 1962, now 59) would have fully benefitted from Title IX's scholastic sports provisions but didn't need them coz as a child swimmer she came up, as most swimmers do, through swim clubs and associations, not through school programs. At age 11, she was hand-picked by to be trained and sponsored by the coach of the Florida Gators, who has trained many Olympians. Hogshead-Makar became nationally ranked at age 12. In HS, she left home to train with the swim team at the University of Florida. It's not clear how much "regular" schooling she got. But her school experience and her childhood and adolescence were not typical of the average American public school student then or now.

Martina Navratilova (born in 1956, now 64) was not affected by Title IX either way coz she grew up and first became a world-class tennis player in communist Czechoslovakia. After she gained asylum in the US in 1974 at age 18, Navratilova did not attend either HS or college/university in the US. I have not been able to find any evidence that Navratilova has ever taken a class or course at a US educational institution that receives federal funds - which again is the sole category of institution that Title IX applies to.

The USA gave Navratilova the freedom to pursue her career and live as she saw fit. Now in her mid-60s, it seems odd - grotesque even - that she wants to deprive present and future generations of American girls and women equal opportunity and fair play in scholastic sports and to enshrine in US federal law the idea that "ordinary" females who aren't up to her elite level of sports performance must sacrifice their own albeit smaller, more modest sports ambitions in order to put the wants and demands of males who ID as trans over their own best interests.

Donna Lopiano (born 1946, now 74) was not allowed to join Little League Baseball coz of her sex. She should know better, but perhaps her blind spot is due to the fact that she did not come up playing school sports - her entire sports career was extracurricular, apart from the school system. From Wikipedia:

At the age of 16, she was offered the opportunity to play for the Connecticut Brakettes, a national championship women's softball team. During her ten year career with the Brakettes, she traveled to Europe and Asia and compiled a career record of 183–18. She delivered 1633 strikeouts in 817 innings, for an average of just under two per inning. She finished her Brakettes career in the top ten of several categories including hits, RBIs, runs and home runs. Overall, throughout her athletic career, she participated in 26 national championships in four sports and was a nine-time All-American at four different positions in softball.

From the website of the CT Women's Hall of Fame:

After the 1972 season, Lopiano left the Brakettes after only ten years, a career some people considered relatively short, but Lopiano had other dreams to pursue. She had earned a position as an assistant athletic director at Brooklyn College, where she also enjoyed coaching basketball, volleyball, and softball. In 1975, she moved to Austin, TX to become the Director of Intercollegiate Athletics for Women at the University of Texas. Here, her programs for women athletes won eighteen national championships in six sports and produced 314 All-Americans. As Lopiano herself was always committed to her studies, she made sure that her athletes were, too. Under her guard, the mean SAT scores of her players went up 100 points.

In short, whilst Lopiano coached many different scholastic sports teams in the US, she appears never to have played on one - or played individual scholastic sports, either.

Doriane Coleman (born 1962, now 59) was one of the first American girls/women to have fully benefitted from Title IX. She went to college on a sports scholarship coz Title IX made it possible for her to have a HS track career. She efinitely should know better, and her testimony in the Caster Semenya case made it appear that she did/does know better.

Also, it should be pointed out that female track & field athletes are the group who've most dramatically benefitted from Title IX's sports provisions. Coz track & field is one of the least expensive programs to run, and doesn't require a huge investment in facilities (unlike, say, swimming, American football and ice hockey do), pretty much all schools have track & field programs, even the ones in poorer districts and urban areas. As a result, Title IX had probably its most dramatic effects on HS girls - particularly black girls -from economically deprived areas and households with an interest in, and talent for, track & field.

Donna de Varona (born 1947, now 73) was a child prodigy swimmer who qualified for the US Olympic team at age 13. Like Hogshead-Makar, de Varona's swim career was entirely separate from the standard US education system, and her schooling appears to have been unconventional coz of her phenomenal achievements as a swimmer. A two-time Olympic gold medalist as well as an Olympic record holder, she was also a huge celebrity, appearing on the covers of Look, Life and Sports Illustrated magazines. At age 16, AP and UP named her "the most outstanding woman athlete in the world." At age 17, she she began a highly successful and illustrious career as a sports broadcaster with ABC's Wide World of Sports. She has received many awards for her television work, and has held many powerful positions.

While de Varona continued to pursue her television career, she also began her work in Washington D.C. as an activist for sports and fitness opportunities for America's youth. Since her retirement from competitions in 1965, she has served five terms on the President's Council on Physical Fitness and Sports and has been appointed to Presidential Commissions under presidents Ford, Carter, Reagan, Clinton, and Bush. A consultant to the United States Senate, de Varona took a leave of absence from her pioneering television career to help with the passage of the 1978 Amateur Sports Act which restructured how Olympic sports are governed in the United States. Subsequently, she was called back to the Senate to consult on amendments to the landmark Olympic legislation and eventually worked to promote and safeguard Title IX of the Equal Education Amendments Act which prohibits discrimination on the basis of sex in any educational institution receiving Federal funding. Named a special advisor to President Clinton's Drug Czar, General Barry McCaffrey, de Varona helped with the establishment and funding for both the United States Anti-Doping Agency and the World Anti-Doping Agency, which are entrusted with eradicating the use of illegal substances to enhance performance in sports.

A promoter of women in sport, in the mid-1970s, she joined Billie Jean King in establishing the Women's Sports Foundation. She served as the first President (1979–1984) and subsequently, became the chairman and Honorary Trustee for the Foundation. Under de Varona's leadership, the Women's Sport Foundation initiated the Hall of Fame Dinner (now the Annual Salute to Women in Sports Awards Dinner), Travel and Training Grants, research projects, a toll-free telephone number and annual visits to Washington, D.C., to educate Congress about Title IX and the importance of providing sport and physical activity opportunities on an equitable basis to both men and women. Over the years, the Foundation has raised more than $30 million to support its programs.

That's from Wikipedia. The list of de Varona's accomplishments and connections goes on.

De Varona did not attend college until her mid-30s; she graduated from UCLA when she was 39. She does not appear to have played or coached any scholastic sports, ever. Again, her schooling and life is very different from the schooling and life of the girls in the US who have benefitted from, and who need, Title IX - such as the HS girls in CT forced to compete in track & field with the two TIMs who regularly trounced and utterly demoralized them, and the women in college/uni forced to compete in track & field against TIMs CeCe Telfer and June Eastwood.

Tracy Sundlun (born 1952, now age 69) did not need Title IX coz he's male and he went to a pricey, ultra-elite prep school, Phillips Exeter Academy, besides.

(Please Note: my good friend Beth Stelzer of Save Women's Sports told me Tuesday night at 9 pm USA Eastern time that the list of persons USA Today says came this policy recommendation might not be complete; apparently other individuals were involved too. But I won't know for sure until I get to discuss it more with her tomorrow.)

But for now, I think it's highly significant that the individuals named by USA Today as making up the group that came up with this policy statement are age 59, 64, 74, 59, 73, and 69.

[–]MarkTwainiac 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Just to add to all my other enraged comments: I'm outraged Martina Navratilova has said she and these other elite, powerful women are merely seeking "clarity" and "unity." Martina is no dummy, and she's a trained media commentator too. She knows full well that such words will be taken to mean that the physical differences between the sexes that give males such a huge advantage over females in sports are a matter that's unclear and in dispute - and that those of us who want female sports for female people are divisive.

[–]MarkTwainiac 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The USA article also names 11 other former ultra-elite athletes who support the policy recommendations of the group headed by Hogshead-Maker. Five are males whose opinion on this matter I don't at this moment give a fuck about. But here's some info on the women.

As far as I can tell, only two of the six women named - Olympic track and field gold medalists Benita Fitzgerald Mosley (born 1961, now 59) and Sanya Richards-Ross (born 1985, now 35) - directly were affected and benefitted from Title IX as students, though Richards-Ross perhaps less so coz she is originally from Jamaica and did not emigrate to the US until sometime in HS.

Tennis player Pam Shriver (born 1962, now 58) does not appear to have been affected by Title IX coz elite tennis is a sport where most training and competition is outside and apart from school in the US; and at any rate she went to private schools, and does not appear to have gone to college/uni.

Long-distance swimmer Diana Nyad (born 1949, now 71) is too old to have benefitted from Title IX. But lack of Title IX did not appear to have held her back athletically coz she grew up very well-off with myriad athletic opportunities and attended fancy private schools where she played a wide variety of sports.

Olympic diving gold medalist Micki King (born 1944, now 76) attended public schools and experienced the dearth of scholastic athletic opportunities. However, starting at age 10 she trained as a diver and competed via the YMCA, and did the same throughout HS with the American Athletic Union. And in college, special exceptions were made to give her opportunities no other girl or women could dream of. From Wikipedia:

King attended the University of Michigan from 1961 to 1965. When King arrived at Michigan in 1961, it did not have a women's diving program. When men's diving coach Dick Kimball saw King, he saw a potential diving star; he saw strength, desire, a natural spring and great athleticism. Kimball decided to train King with the men's team. Working with Kimball, King became the first woman to master a number of dives, including a 1-1/2 somersault dive with a 2-1/2 twist on a ten-meter tower.

In the years before Title IX, women were not permitted to compete in Michigan athletics, but Kimball and King circumvented the system. King recalled, "One of Coach Kimball's greatest lines was that he didn't coach men or women he coached people. He taught me dives that no woman had ever done before. I pioneered those dives. Coach Kimball knew that we were a team of people." She noted: "We used the women's pool at the CCRB. What was ironic was that the men were allowed to come into and use the women's pool but the women couldn't even come into the men's. What Kimball would do was sneak us through the back doors because the front door was right in front of the administrators. We used the spectator bathroom and used washcloths and the public sink as a shower. We thought we were lucky."

She was the dominant figure in women's diving in the United States from 1965 to 1972. In 1965, competing for the Ann Arbor Swim Club (since Michigan did not have a team),King was the US national indoor platform champion, the national outdoor three-meter champion and was named Diver of the Year. After graduating from Michigan, King joined the US Air Force in 1966 and was assigned to the Air Force ROTC program in Ann Arbor, Michigan, where she continued to train with Dick Kimball. In all, King won ten US national diving championships in the outdoor three-meter springboard (1965, 1967, 1969, 1970), one meter (1967), platform (1969), and indoor three-meter springboard (1965, 1971).

King also excelled in water polo. She led the Ann Arbor Swim Club to two AAU national championships (1961–1963) and was twice named an All-American goalie.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micki_King

Lyn St. James (born 1947, age 73) sports career seems to consist of being a race car driver. Since then, she has been a motivational speaker and involved with NASCAR. As race car driving is not a scholastic sport in any US middle school, HS or college/university that I know of, I dunno why she should have a say on Title IX or why anyone should care what she thinks about it. Many of the girls and women who most need and will most benefit from Title IX scholastic sports programs attend schools that don't even offer driver's ed - and if their schools did offer it, it wouldn't matter coz they live in urban areas where people don't own cars, and/or they come from households that can't afford a car.

Here are the ages of the six sportswomen named in the USA article as backing this policy: 59, 35, 58, 71, 76, 73.

[–]akkordeonplayer 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They’re afraid of losing their incomes/sponsors/careers.

[–]SweetBabyCheeses 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Are we sure that Martina et al are not just trolling them? Their suggested compromises sound rubbish? I kinda like the idea of them having their own leagues. If we can have the paralympics and have a like a million categories then surely there’s enough for trans and intersex leagues.