Doctor who chops off TiFs’ breasts calls herself “Tit Wizard” - where is the outrage?

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[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

But trans people who have persistent gender dysphoria after puberty are most definitely not going to be growing out of it.

Most people who have mental illnesses that emerge during or after puberty (ADHD, depression, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, etc) don't grow out of it either. But we don't treat them by telling them to lean into their manic episodes, hallucinations, and suicidal thoughts. We treat them with therapy and medications. And no, HRT is not a medication the same way antidepressants, antipsychotics, and stimulants are. HRT is more akin to giving someone with hallucinations LSD to intensify those visions and their detachment from reality.

Telling someone with anorexia to get liposuction or that they are right about their deluded feelings is a false equivalency in comparison to a transman getting top surgery.

How? Because gender dysphoria is the ONLY area where patients are told to embrace a view of themselves that's inconsistent with reality. You keep insisting that it's not the same and that trans people aren't suffering from a delusion but you don't explain how. Just how exactly are trans people different in this regard? Because from where most people are standing it seems like many of them are simply suffering from internalized homophobia, internalized misogyny, suffering from some other mental illness, or are chasing a yaoi/lesbian fetish. You can't just say 'it's not the same' with nothing to back that up. Gender dysphoria is seen as a mental illness that's 'treated' with hormones and surgery. It's the only mental illness where the patient's body is altered instead of the mind. There are people who think their perfectly healthy limbs shouldn't be there, but we don't hack them off to make them happy. How is a girl who thinks she's a boy and therefore thinks her boobs are foreign objects any different?

[–]BEB[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Excellent post. Is it OK if I use part of your post when others make the same argument?

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Sure! It would make me happy to see more people poking holes in this "logic" because I'm really tired of seeing it. TRAs will say 'it's not the same' but won't bother to delve into why. They'll say HRT is 'medication to treat dysphoria like antipsychotics treat schizophrenia' when that's not even remotely true. Antipsychotics tone down hallucinations and voices. A doctor won't sit there and say 'oh you're hearing voices? you should listen to them. here's a drug to help you keep having those experiences. maybe the voices will get even louder! you brain is gonna be a party when you start seeing twice as much trippy shit!'. But a gender clinic absolutely WILL say 'oh you're dysphoric and think you should be a boy? you think you should've been born without breasts? here's testosterone to help intensify that belief. and put you on a waiting list for a double mastectomy while we're at it. you're gonna look sooo manly after a few years on T!' A true medication to treat dysphoria would help a patient be more comfortable in their body without trying to change it beyond recognition.

It's infuriating. There is nothing 'false' about that comparison. A true false equivalency would be 'being trans is exactly like being gay or black'. No, it really isn't. The only overlap is that many gay people also experience dysphoria, and many black people often wish we could identify out of oppression. That overlap doesn't make those situations identical. Being unhappy because you think you shouldn't be a girl is not the same as being unhappy because people around you tell you it's wrong for you to like girls, or being racist because of your skin color. One is denying reality altogether - "I'm not a girl", the other is being upset at other people's response to reality "I hate how people make me feel for being a girl/lesbian/black/etc."

Edit: I also wanted to add that just because something makes someone feel better doesn't mean it was the right thing to do. Just because top surgery may improve the lives of some trans men doesn't mean it's a practice that needs to continue. Crack makes people feel better. Abusing women makes some shitty men feel better. Binge drinking makes people feel better. We don't encourage those behaviors though because they are, on average, harmful and unnecessary.

Also, no one can really say that with confidence because detransition rates are largely unknown. Any study that attempts to gather legitimate data on detransitioners gets either stopped before it can begin, or never gets published anywhere people can find the data easily. Add to that how trans suicide rates don't really go down much following surgery, and that argument has never held water either. I wrote a ton and I really didn't intend to, but I have a lot of feelings about this.

[–]BEB[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You wrote a lot of wisdom, thank you!

I always make the point that women and minority men (in the US) can't identify out of our oppression, whereas all TiMs have to do is change their appearance and their oppression vanishes.

[–]redditbegay 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

A doctor won't sit there and say 'oh you're hearing voices? you should listen to them.

This was a great gem in an excellent post!

Edit: I also wanted to add that just because something makes someone feel better doesn't mean it was the right thing to do. Just because top surgery may improve the lives of some trans men doesn't mean it's a practice that needs to continue. Crack makes people feel better. Abusing women makes some shitty men feel better. Binge drinking makes people feel better. We don't encourage those behaviors though because they are, on average, harmful and unnecessary.

Changing genders based on what a TEENAGER feels should not be medically sanctioned. There is no current disease that is treated by TRANSITIONING teenagers. Period.