ShieldMaiden comments on We’re Raising Our Daughter Gender-Neutral, but She Only Wants Pink Dresses. Where did we mess up?

We’re Raising Our Daughter Gender-Neutral, but She Only Wants Pink Dresses. Where did we mess up?

submitted 3 years ago by turtleduck23 from slate.com

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[–][deleted] 3 years ago* (6 children)

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[–]ShieldMaiden 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun - 3 years ago (5 children)

Blue was associated with girls and women because it's the colour of the Virgin Mary's veil, not because of Neptune, which is a planet named after a male god. Red, and by extension pink, was associated with soldier's uniforms, Christian militaristic emblems (St. George's Cross is red on white), and so on. Pink is like a watered down version of this 'soldier's' red. It's true that Mars is red and named after the male god of war, but there are also female goddesses of war, and the most feminine planet besides Earth (which is largely blue-looking) is Venus, which is yellowish (a bit orangey, too), and that colour as far as I know has never been associated with girls and women in the Occident. So I don't think planets have anything to do with it, at least I've never heard of that before and it doesn't seem to make much sense.

Also, the pink/blue thing has switched around before, apparently there was a period in 18th century France where pink was for baby girls and blue for baby boys, I think this was pretty exclusively relegated to the upper echelons of society and the etiquette around decorating bassinets and dressing the babies.

[+][deleted] 3 years ago (4 children)

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[–]ShieldMaiden 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun - 3 years ago (3 children)

I know colours are just colours, but the historical reasons I gave for why blue has been associated with female children and pink with male children are correct. It's fine that spiritual people have assigned water as feminine (and Earth, whereas air and fire are masculine, all arbitrary but fine by me, whatever), it's fine that this is an old association, therefore that "makes sense" as a girls' colour, but that wasn't the reason. If I had no idea about history, I'd agree with you that those could very well be the reasons for the colour associations, even though they've jumped back and forth more than once (with pink being for girls, and blue for boys). But it had nothing to do with elementals, that's all I was trying to say. The 'system' was pretty loose (switching back and forth occasionally), and mostly took inspiration from religious iconography. Incidentally, my comment may be of no interest to you, but someone else who doesn't know about these historical quirks might be interested if they come across my comment. Sorry if I offended you, it wasn't my intention, I just wanted to give the reason for the colour associations as I knew them. It was religion (Christianity) that inspired these things, not astrology or elementals or alchemy, as (way) cool(er) as that would have been, as I love the aesthetics of those things a lot more than Christian iconography.

And yeah, we're on a GC forum, I took it as a given that you would be against the idea that one colour must be associated with one sex, and the other sex with another colour, and never the twain should meet. I mean, I think everyone here agrees with that, other wise we wouldn't be very gender critical.

[+][deleted] 3 years ago (2 children)

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[–]ShieldMaiden 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun - 3 years ago (1 child)

Cool, I'm an atheist, too, born and raised. I find that irrelevant in this case, but thanks for letting me know. I find paganism/classical goddesses and gods really interesting, too. Like I said, I get your reasoning about why those associations would make sense, and I think they're cooler than the real reasons for the colour/sex thing, and again, I left my comment not only for you but for anyone to come across and learn about the cultural origins of these associations (in the Occident at least, and I know that for most people, including myself until recently, it is not well-known that the colours have switched around more than once, not just the one time recently). I wasn't trying to attack you or your ideas at all. As for sources, you are welcome to look them up. It is believed by most historians that I've come across (particularly ones who specialize in textiles and clothing and the like) that blue for girls comes from the Virgin Mary, and red and pink for boys comes from St. George's Cross and the fact that Jesus is often depicted wearing red. (Some will say red/pink for boys was reinforced by other military uniforms throughout time, this may be true also.)

I think no more need be said about this. It's not a big deal and it feels like you're taking it really personally/seriously. I don't know why you're still replying, but I appreciate your enthusiasm.

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