Frustrated at the dismissal of female sexuality, especially homosexuality

submitted by RedditHatesLesbians from (self.GenderCritical)

https://www.livescience.com/33992-gay-women.html

Went down a rabbit hole and found this example. Here's a quote that rubbed me the wrong way:

"Adding to the confusion about what causes lesbianism is the slipperiness of female sexuality itself. Unlike men, who are usually sexually oriented solely toward men or women, and whose sexuality is essentially fixed from puberty on, a decade of research by the University of Utah psychologist Lisa Diamond and others demonstrates that women have greater "erotic plasticity." Their sexual orientation can be shaped by cultural influences, altered by positive or negative experiences and intensified by feelings of love or attachment. Women are far more likely than men to "report remarkably late and abrupt onset of same-sex sexuality, often after heterosexual marriage," Diamond wrote in January in the Archives of Sexual Behavior.

Their sexual fluidity may emerge from the fact that, across the board, women are sexually aroused by images of both men and women (while men are typically only aroused by members of their preferred sex).

Therefore, the question "why are there gay women?" may be better worded as "why is female sexuality so fluid?"

If female sexuality was fluid, wouldn't conversion therapy work? Wouldn't female homosexuals in a repressive environment just settle down with some dick since they've had oh so many bad experiences as a result of being same-sex attracted?

Stuff like this is why female sexuality is so often being dismissed and seen as fluid.

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[–]RevengeOfTheCis 25 insightful - 1 fun25 insightful - 0 fun26 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I am so sick of hearing about this "study", which male spaces like reddit LOVE to tout as "proof" you can pressure your GF into a threesome/watching porn, since "all women are bi, anyway"! Or that you can "turn your local lesbian," since, again, "all women are bi, anyway!"

And this obviously harms bi women, too, since... once again, "all women are bi, anyway! (so why do you need to talk about it, just shut up!)"

In no particular order, here is why I consider this study bullshit:

First of all, it doesn't take into consideration that straight women, like everyone else, are fed a constant diet of media that centers the male gaze and sexualizes and objectifies women's bodies. I don't think a sexual response to images of women necessarily proves that a woman is sexually attracted to women, but rather that the woman knows that such an image implies sexual activity is forthcoming (most likely involving a male, who they ARE sexually attracted to).

Second, it assumes that the case for males is the default case. In this instance, straight males being attracted to images of women "proves" they're straight, and gay males being attracted to images of men "proves" they're gay. Therefore, women being attracted to both "proves" they're all bi. But wait a second here, why can't it be that women being attracted to all the images "proves" that women are sexually aroused by images implying sexual activity because they're aroused by the thought of the act of sex (not necessarily the person depicted), and men only being attracted to images depicting the bodies of people they're attracted to "proves" they are more likely to see their sexual partners as objects, and are only aroused when looking at the right "object"? The result is completely different if we allow the FEMALE result to be the default for once.

I just hate this "study" so much.

[–]bigmeaniebutt 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, it pisses me off too. Tbh though, I think the research is inaccurate, I think men are more attracted to performances of femininity/masculinity, traditional beauty standards and displays of submissive/dominance. Which is so ingrained in our culture that it gets mistaken for sex.

Edit; basically, men have already constructed society around their preferences.

[–]Gearbeta 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I don't like Lisa Diamond for a variety of reasons but to be absolutely fair, she did say this in her book about fluidity (Sexual fluidity):

If we examine correlations between women’s initial percentages of same-sex attraction (in 1995) and the size of their subsequent changes, we find a strikingly consistent pattern: the more same-sex attractions a woman reported in 1995 (and, in fact, throughout the rest of the study as well), the less her attractions changed over time, in either direction. Thus women who reported predominant or near-exclusive attractions to women in 1995 tended to remain pretty much the same. The women with more nonexclusive attractions—those who identified as bisexual or unlabeled—underwent the most sizeable shifts."

And this:

"If we use these changes in attractions to make inferences about changes in sexual orientation, we must conclude that there is not much evidence for change in orientation. The small shifts experienced by lesbians nonetheless kept them in the lesbian range, and even the sizeable shifts experienced by unlabeled and bisexual women kept them in the bisexual range: they almost never jumped to near-exclusive same-sex attractions or plummeted down to nearexclusive other-sex attractions. Note, in particular, that the women who had reidentified as heterosexual by 2005 did not undergo much change either: they had always reported less frequent samesex attractions than the rest of the sample; they simply came to label and interpret these feelings differently over time."

And lastly this:

"The only group of women who showed extreme stability in their identity labels over time were the women who basically described themselves as being 100 percent attracted to women from the very beginning. They showed almost no identity change. So it was very clearly connected to this understanding of your own capacity for different types of attractions and behaviors over time."

So even she's saying that completely heterosexual and homosexual women exist. The point of her research was to prove that bisexual women were real and were not a phase like many people thought at the time. However many people twisted her words (and imo she let them do this or encouraged it) and used the study as proof that conversion therapy could work, or that lesbians weren't real and not much press was given to those things I quoted in her book.

[–]RedditHatesLesbians[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Huh, TIL. Very interesting and makes a lot of sense.

[–]anxietyaccount8 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I'm no expert, but tbh I don't think these evolutionary psych explanations of sexuality are all that accurate. Just because female sexuality can be diverse, doesn't mean it's "slippery".

Also, what's up with the people who think that men have a very rigid sexuality? Have they never seen porn before? Men can aroused by all kinds of fetishes, or develop different tastes over time, etc...

[–]Porphyria 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You just reminded me of something : The allegedly rigid male sexuality has been used to excuse pedophilia . "The poor man can't help it ; his first experience with being sexually aroused was by another nine year old when he was nine, and how he is fixated on nine year old girls. He can't help himself , poor thing-!"

[–]PopeyesChicken 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I used to work at a gay bar. Lots of gay guy friends cause I was one of two lesbians working the place.

Sooo many “straight” guys fuck dudes. Lots experiment. They just don’t tell people about it. They don’t even admit they’re bisexual. Don't believe me? Ask a gay man sometime.

[–]LesbiSilly 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

"f female sexuality was fluid, wouldn't conversion therapy work?" I have said the exact same thing. And I will keep saying the same thing. If sexuality was fluid, NO ONE would be LGB.