The Trans Ego: Why Allies are becoming TERFS

submitted by malleus_maleficarum from (self.GenderCritical)

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[–]yousaythosethings 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

If we want to accelerate the process of people waking up or the already terven to speak out, we should shop the lawsuit prospects to law firms that handle class actions. They are always thirsty for a story in the way journalists are and they will seek out the perfect litigants. Just tell them here’s your next case and direct them to Irreversible Damage by Abigail Shrier. That book essentially is a primer on the massive amounts of lawsuit potential including against medical professionals and pharmaceutical companies.

[–]malleus_maleficarum[S] 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

"Informed Consent" clinics are a way to deflect these lawsuits with signed disclaimers and waivers. However, I do believe you're right, it's coming like a very expensive tidal wave. It's already hitting Britain:

*'I should have been told to wait': Woman treated with hormone blockers to reassign gender as a teenager takes NHS to court *

https://news.sky.com/story/i-should-have-been-told-to-wait-woman-treated-with-hormone-blockers-to-reassign-gender-as-a-teenager-takes-nhs-to-court-12031191

No Longer Silent, UK Gender Clinic Whistleblower Launches Lawsuit

https://genderheretics.org/index.php/2020/07/07/no-longer-silent-uk-gender-clinic-whistleblower-launches-lawsuit/

[–]yousaythosethings 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I'm a lawyer but this is not my field so I'd have to look more into the legal framework but I doubt the "informed consent" defense is anything close to bulletproof. There's only so much liability a person can waive. And there are so many factors at play here that there's a lot to work with. For one thing, there are being actively trying to hide risks in order to make a profit. A seasoned plaintiff's side class action firm should be able to devise a winning legal strategy, and even if it's not wholly successful, the amount of publicity it will bring will be enormous.

Additionally, narcissistic parents with Munchausen's pushing their kids to transition would not have a similar defense and I fully expect to see lawsuits against them too, though of course not class actions.

I'm not surprised that the lawsuits have started in the UK as they're ahead of the U.S. in terms of how far the trans craze has made changes to the law and warped the public discourse, so they will provide a helpful template for our legal approach.

[–]malleus_maleficarum[S] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I'm a lawyer but this is not my field so I'd have to look more into the legal framework but I doubt the "informed consent" defense is anything close to bulletproof. There's only so much liability a person can waive.

Words to inspire hope here.

I'm not surprised that the lawsuits have started in the UK as they're ahead of the U.S. in terms of how far the trans craze has made changes to the law and warped the public discourse, so they will provide a helpful template for our legal approach.

I would think that the fact Britain is not split into 50 different states (with different laws, different data collection, etc.) and has a unified national health care system is helping bring it into the light. Would love your knowledgeable opinion on that.

[–]yousaythosethings 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I did a very quick search trying to dig into the legal framework for the "informed consent model" in the United States and I found very little information about what this rests on. God, what else is new with trans ideology? Everything about it is meant to be purposely difficult to find actual factual information about. Sounds like this is a prime topic for someone to write a law review article on. Time to shop around this idea in r/lawschool. . . . I'm sure there are plenty of people who would love to write an article for their law journal on such a hot button issue, and I'm sure there are some established legal scholars who would also not shy away from this topic. Abigail Shrier is a graduate of the best law school in the United States, so no doubt she has a few friends who might be interested in this topic. We really should be pushing this discussion in the public domain through every mechanism and angle possible. Pretty much everything angle paints a very ominous, Orwellian picture: medicine, psychology, law sociology, politics, existing civil rights, etc.

It certainly doesn't pass the smell test for TRAs to be talking about the rigorous evaluation process to obtain "gender affirmative" treatment if the model rests entirely on some nebulous notion of "informed consent" that is also a significant barrier to these "treatment" rubber stamps facing any liability. I wonder, what is required under the law for the patient or his or her parent to be considered "informed?" Known serious risks are very obviously not being disclosed and are arguably if not actually intentionally being kept hidden.

I am not super informed about the NHS but from what I know, I would be inclined to agree that the NHS as a major player in health care and as an aggregator of key data for which there is no equivalent in the United States, is way better positioned to expose transgenderism as the pseudoscientific massive abuse of human rights that it is, and it is much better for the lawsuits to start there than in the United States so that they can be used as precedent. If being transgender is innate and universal as activists claim (since they're so hellbent against typology and disambiguation), then there should be no issue with adopting findings from UK data and applying them to cases in the United States.

[–]malleus_maleficarum[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Thank you so much for sharing all this knowledge and insight. I'm not a lawyer, so I find your perspective really illuminating and educational.

so no doubt she has a few friends who might be interested in this topic.

She had mentioned the framing of 'trans' as immutable in regards to positioning it for coverage under the 14th Amendment's Equal Protection Clause; and I thought to myself when reading through that chapter that I'd like to see their claims of immutability get a serious public airing out and a legal challenge in the future.

Known serious risks are very obviously not being disclosed and are arguably if not actually intentionally being kept hidden.

Excellent point. And Lupron's off label/experimental usage seems to be enabling prescribers to say, "We don't have studies on the effects of this specific off label use so we can't inform as to what the full future risks are". And no studies of its use as a puberty blocker in healthy kids are in progress either. They clearly don't want any studies done. (Of course when it was offered to me it was on-label, so to speak, therefore all the horrific side effects were explained. I noped out of there.)

We really should be pushing this discussion in the public domain through every mechanism and angle possible.

Off you trot to re-education camp. In all seriousness, it's starting to feel like the dam is breaking and we are starting to talk about it more, and more frankly, as a society in just the last few months. Which gives me a modicum of hope.

[–]yousaythosethings 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yes, I recall the section of Irreversible Damage where Abigail addressed how the transgender movement is trying to position itself as immutable amidst the abundant evidence that it's not. Abigail spent a lot of time showing exactly how mutable and malleable it is and how "kids just know and we need to trust them" makes no sense. Desistance rates are high and this is without there being necessary tracking such as people who sign up for a gender clinic but desist while on the waiting list (I think this is more of a UK thing). Detransitioning rates are going to explode within the next few years as the younger teenagers become adults and as the older teens hit their mid-twenties. Once they hit the real world post-college they will at minimum realize what a poor coping mechanism this has all been and how ill-prepared they are to live a meaningful life outside their echo chamber. It's one thing for people to make being trans their career on YouTube. It's another if they hope to enter a professional field where they have to interact with all kinds of people and they have no control over what they're exposed to.

I am late to having the veil lifted on gender ideology, but I also see a bit of a dam breaking too. JK Rowling has provided a helpful excuse to breach the subject and take a temperature check of others, and signal that I'm open to this dialogue. She definitely emboldened me to step up, take action, and start using my voice and my own skillset to help make change. Abigail Shrier has helped too. I'm a lesbian but not a masculine one. I was tomboy-ish but not fullblown when I was younger so I didn't necessarily think that I would have been the natural prey for the movement that a lot of lesbians are. But that opening chapter in her book made clear that I was exactly the kind of teen who would have gotten swept up in it. I checked basically all of the boxes. And that is effing terrifying. I also have a mom who very obviously has narcissistic personality disorder and Munchausen's and who is politically liberal so it would have been a perfect goddamn storm.

[–]malleus_maleficarum[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

amidst the abundant evidence that it's not

A few years ago I'd have thought I sounded like a loon, but now it seems so reasonable to mention how thorough the trans movement has been at systematically trying to discredit and de-platform the very academics who would provide the expert testimony re: immutability. It feels highly coordinated, along with the development of mass-taggers to identify wrong-thinkers, the take-over of reddit/twitter/facebook policies...

It's another if they hope to enter a professional field where they have to interact with all kinds of people and they have no control over what they're exposed to.

I do worry about institutional capture, but I think the sheer volume of the rest of society - of the people they have to bully - will turn them into Hitler slogging through Russia. Perhaps I'm too optimistic.

They've done as predicted. Now that they've gotten women thrown off reddit and attacked women like JK Rowling, they're moving on to men: gay men's forums, Linehan, etc. And of course men are harder to bully and society cares more about their opinions when it happens.

I was a tomboy and I wanted to be a boy as a teen. I wasn't unhappy with my body or my social life, but I desperately wanted the privilege of not worrying about pregnancy, or rape, or a lifetime of catcalling and gross comments and being told girls are supposed to get married and have kids. I wanted to travel the world as a man with two pairs of khakis in a backpack, riding trains and sleeping in cheap hostels with no fear of men. I wanted men's jobs that paid well and came with respect and adventure. The TRA determination to get around the obstacle of parents, the grooming, the recruiting documented in that book sent a cold jolt through me. I'm sure that they would have tried to drag me in too, and that's horrifying.

But, I think the dam is breaking because we're all having the same jolts: "They'd have tried to get their hooks in me as a teenager" and "They're coming after every adult with boundaries and critical thinking skills." It's getting more and more personal for the bystanders.