A clown world.

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[–]Realwoman 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

I personally don't support affirmative action, it think it makes people resentful. It could be useful in some situations as an initial boost, when it's about interest representation more than merit (for instance, lawmakers). But in general, I'm against it.

[–]Yayme 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

And that's fair enough.. but I'll be honest, people being resentful would never be enough reason to persuade me to be for or against anything.

People will always be resentful. If you could say that it doesn't help the people it's targeted to help, or show how it's not necessary (not you specifically, just people who are against it in general) then I might be persuaded to change my mind. But resentful people are going to resent. And, I would wonder if they have my best interests in mind if they're so resentful of institutions trying to level the playing field a little.

[–]Realwoman 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

I don't think it helps minorities either. People will not respect someone from a minority or an oppressed class if there are rumors that they only got the job/university entry thanks to their ethnicity or sex. It slows down equality and perpetuates stereotypes. Also, if you need certain skills in order to do something, then it makes sense to do hiring based on merit alone and try to either have objective criteria (test scores for example) or blind the judges in some way.

Also, it's important to address the reasons disparities in achievement exist and try to fix those. It's important to give kids equal opportunities, no matter what their parents' background is. It's important that kids have access to educational opportunities independent of their parent's income or neighborhood. And that they don't end up in debt for persuinh that same education.

But when it comes to hiring and university admissions, merit should be the only criteria. I don't want my doctor to have been admitted to medical school only thanks to to his ethnicity, with lower scores than others that were not admitted.

[–]Yayme 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Again, I'm not worried about people "respecting me" so that argument carries no weight with me. I don't care if someone I beat out on a job "respects me." I'm worried about being successful.

I agree that addressing disparities would be a much better solution.

Just because someone gets admitted to college because of preferential treatment doesn't mean they get to graduate, so the doctor argument seems invalid. too.

Again, I feel that anyone arguing against affirmative action, which has benefited me, doesn't really have MY best interests at heart, so I'm not really going to care what they say. BUT, I 100% agree that it would be better to address these issues at the root, rather than way on down the line, like we do now.

[–]Realwoman 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I meant, respect the group as a whole.

And of course that there are competing interests when it comes to limited resources. In a competition, some lose, some win. I don't have transwomen's best interest at heart when I don't want them to compete against actual women in sports. I don't have the interests of low performers at heart when I want high performers to get the privilege they're applying for and that they deserve.

I don't see how the doctor argument is invalid at all. So if that person is admitted and doesn't graduate, she just wasted resources and time that could have been used for someone more capable that can graduate and can become a doctor.

[–]Yayme 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I don't see how the doctor argument is invalid at all. So if that person is admitted and doesn't graduate, she just wasted resources and time that could have been used for someone more capable that can graduate and can become a doctor.

is not the same thing as

I don't want my doctor to have been admitted to medical school only thanks to to his ethnicity, with lower scores than others that were not admitted.

I don't have the interests of low performers at heart when I want high performers to get the privilege they're applying for and that they deserve.

And maybe AA is outdated, maybe we have made enough progress where it's unnecessary. But it doesn't really seem like it from where I'm sitting.

And I think there's a difference between forcing people to give the chronically overlooked a chance, and forcing them to keep incompetent students/contractors/musicians. Except I guess maybe in Europe where they pretty much can't get rid of people for any reason.

[–]Realwoman 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I don't think we will agree, especially since you have a vested interest in affirmative action. The same way rich kids have a vested interest in college admissions taking donations into account when admitting students.

I don't understand your remark about Europe.

[–]Yayme 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I don't think we will agree

Probably not fully. I can see where you're coming from - I get frustrated when an RFP in my wheelhouse is put out, but 100% set aside for disable veterans. But not frustrated enough to want to do away with AA altogether.

Can I ask - have you ever been impacted by AA at all? Either negative or positive, or do you just dislike it in theory?

[–]Realwoman 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

No, I haven't been impacted by it directly but I have the potential to benefit from it.

[–]ThisSiteIsUnusable 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

You don't know what affirmative action is, do you?

[–]Realwoman 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Enlighten me