Let's start a women's group, we say. Meanwhile, men...

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[–][deleted]  (7 children)

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    [–]mangosplums 25 insightful - 2 fun25 insightful - 1 fun26 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

    Honestly, yes. If you’re going to ignore the science and say masks aren’t proven to work, despite numerous scientific studies proving they do, and the fact that countries that have mandatory masks with great compliance are doing leagues better than other countries, you’re conspiracy theorist. If you are about acknowledging reality and science, then you should be acknowledging the science behind masks too, no matter how annoying you find wearing them.

    [–]OrneryStruggle 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

    Can you link the "numerous scientific studies proving they do"? Even the WHO maintains that cloth masks don't work and the BBC science correspondent confirmed with the WHO that they stopped recommending against masks due to political lobbying, as their committee review found no evidence for wearing them.

    I would love to see these "numerous scientific studies" though and I'm wondering why it would make one a "conspiracy theorist" to disagree with some scientists and agree with others. As an academic scientist I can tell you that within the scientific field people who criticize and disagree with other scientists are just called "scientists."

    I guess "conspiracy theorist" is just a cheap and lazy way of saying "critical thinker" these days, which makes all us GC feminists "conspiracy theorists" wrt TRAs as well.

    ETA: which are these "countries which have mandatory masks"?

    [–]mangosplums 25 insightful - 4 fun25 insightful - 3 fun26 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

    Why yes, yes I can. https://www.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/ho40c4/if_someone_asks_whats_the_evidence_for_mask/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

    That’s an aggregate of various studies on the effectiveness of masks.

    Here are some studies I have seen myself: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/06/200612172200.htm https://theweek.com/speedreads/917918/large-global-study-affirms-face-masks-reduce-covid19-infection-risk-by-85-percent

    https://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/2020/06/16/mask-covid

    [–]mangosplums 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

    Why yes, yes I can. https://www.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/ho40c4/if_someone_asks_whats_the_evidence_for_mask/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

    That’s an aggregate of various studies on the effectiveness of masks.

    Here are some studies I have seen myself: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/06/200612172200.htm https://theweek.com/speedreads/917918/large-global-study-affirms-face-masks-reduce-covid19-infection-risk-by-85-percent

    https://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/2020/06/16/mask-covid

    [–]OrneryStruggle 11 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

    I asked for studies, not news articles, as finding the studies themselves when they aren't linked in the articles is fairly annoying.

    But for example, the Zhang/Molina PNAS paper that you claim to have "seen yourself" (while linking to a press release about it and not the study itself) is likely to be retracted following a huge number of scientists critiquing its obviously preposterous claims and ridiculous methodology: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/peteraldhous/mario-molina-coronavirus-face-masks-pnas

    Here's a twitter thread about it (blue check by one of the signatories of the letter calling for retraction) explaining some of the issues and the academic misconduct that led to the study being published: https://twitter.com/BillHanage/status/1273659736760737793

    This was a big controversy in the science community and many articles have been written about it.

    Your third link links to the same study, so see above.

    The lancet metastudy which is the only other linked paper uses only "observational" studies for other illnesses to infer whether or not mask use could help, but they underscore that N95 respirators are the only type of mask that shows a significant effect (i.e., surgical masks do not). All studies in this dataset are about PPE use by hospital workers in hospital settings, so it's basically impossible to extrapolate them to mask use by the public, mask re-use or cloth masks.

    Can you link me to specific papers that you see "proving" that masks (any kind of mask) work for the general public in a pandemic scenario? I'll wait.

    [–]Marsupial 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    Frankly, the mask thing is up in the air. There are numerous countries that do not do it and which aren't experiencing any major breakout. While obviously N95 masks handled by trained staff are a good protection, there are a lot of problems with how masks are being used and the claims associated with the current use. In the way they are used currently- which is poorly made masks used by non-trained laymen- they are a risk of giving people a false sense of security and likely are not as effective as people think they are, especially not the home made fabric masks that people just take off, wash and reuse (or keep on during the entire day). The US has become pretty narrowminded when it comes to the use of masks, when in reality there should be much more focus on staying at home, keeping distance and (the most important one) washing your hands. It's reasonable to believe masks have some effect but it should not be the priority countermeasure the way it has become.

    [–]OrneryStruggle 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    I agree that obviously N95s in a hospital setting when used properly and disposed of properly should theoretically work (for either a droplet-based or airborne virus - no one can seem to agree which it is) but the evidence for The Proles wearing Whatever Mask Even If It Is An Old Scarf is thin to put it lightly.

    It's also weird that in many locales it is being mandated AFTER covid-19 is no longer an epidemic.