GC: How would you react if you saw a trans woman in the women's restroom?

submitted by GenderbenderShe/her/hers from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

You will never know what it is to be a female

Mm, bet. I'll still be trying, it's just on medical science to catch up.

But somehow a TW can know what it means to be a woman?

I don't know what it's like to be you, or female, just what it's like to be my current self and how others perceive me. I can't just stop my dysphoria it's not how it works it's just part of me.

Nobody is a woman or a man based on whether they get harassed or do the harassing.

I didn't mean to imply this, I'm sorry. People are men or women regardless, I was talking about things that trans women have in common.

just leave everyone else and female spaces the fuck alone

I've never gone into a space where it's been specifically made clear I'm not wanted or where I can infer it. Like I wouldn't join a club for women and when I needed a place to stay because of DV I sheltered at a friend's. I only decided to use the bathroom after women friends of mine kept insisting.

What does "leave everyone else" alone mean in this context though like you already know I'm stealth irl?

sure you’ll be a woman

Okay yeah I'll be sure to let you know I want to do all of those things

Even if you do pass the things you say probably give you away if you talk irl the way you type here.

🙄 1. I don't talk the same I'm way less talkative 2. You are just trying to make me feel bad

You don’t have a framework. You base your womanhood on your narcissism and dysphoria.

I had a neuropsych eval to try and find out if I was npd because my mom likely is but unfortunately for ppl throwing this accusation around at any and all trans people, I'm just a weird anxious young adult with gender dysphoria. But yeah my framework is just based on what someone says they are.

Seriously I can’t imagine invading a space where I know I’m not wanted

I don't do this though I literally only started using any public bathrooms because every single person around me told me I was being ridiculous and that it would be fine?? Like im hyperaware and terrified of upsetting someone but there's never been an issue and I can't just go back to holding it, and I can't make myself use the men's room. Like imagine how that would be at work, none of my coworkers know I'm trans so when I'm at the office where am I supposed to pee?

I need to use the bathroom to be able to live publically. I don't need to join other spaces especially when ppl in that space have said or implied they wouldn't want me there. There just isn't any consensus like that for public bathrooms.

Idk it seems like you think I just barge in anywhere and everywhere and that's not the case whatsoever.

You can’t say in one sentence that no one’s feelings matter more than another’s after saying you’d tell that boy that he should disregard all the girls at his school lol. Hypocrite much?

Idk how it's hypocritical when I literally said every person should decide what bathroom they want to use without being restricted by others.

Of course you’d tell a little boy that his feelings matter more than little girls. Male solidarity and what not lol

The kid's gender isn't the point I'd say a trans boy should be able to use the bathroom he wants to too.

I am knowledgeable lmao

Okay I will take your word for it. You should be helping make the decisions then. Do you have to misgender Lia or me though?

I mean this whole post and a lot of the thread is just you misgendering me and all that. You'd probably be more rude if the sub didn't have rules idk. I'm sorry if I'm frustrating to talk to. I don't wish you banned or anything.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

  1. You will not be a woman. You cannot be a woman. You are not a woman. Like I said it’s getting to be too much so I skimmed a lot of your justifications for calling yourself one because honestly it’s too much

-2. I honestly appreciate that you wouldn’t join a woman’s club and that you went to a friends place instead of a woman’s shelter. Truly. I appreciate that you did that because others wouldn’t have. I still don’t think female bathrooms are for TW

-3. I don’t care about TW wanting to be stealth. So I don’t care about it causing issues at work for you. I just don’t. Sorry.

-4. It’s insane to me to tell one person it’s okay to make everyone else feel uncomfortable. Even children. That boy should be nowhere near female spaces and a girl shouldn’t be in boy spaces. It’s hypocritical to say no one’s feelings matter more than anyone else’s and then say that boy should use female spaces because of his genderfeelz

-5. I never misgendered you. Man is not a gender. I properly sexed you.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

You will not be a woman. You cannot be a woman. You are not a woman.

I am and I will be female someday : P

So I don’t care about it causing issues at work for you. I just don’t. Sorry.

Cool then I don't care about whether me maintaining being stealth upsets someone I'm never going to meet sorry

It’s insane to me to tell one person it’s okay to make everyone else feel uncomfortable.

Why are trans people responsible for everyone else's comfort? Surely you wouldn't tell a gay boy or a lesbian girl to not use the bathroom just because some of their classmates are homophobic?

People should use the bathroom they want. If they have a problem with someone else using it then that's on them.

I never misgendered you. Man is not a gender. I properly sexed you.

Awesomely pedantic it's still against the rules although I don't really expect much to ever be done about it because this place is biased against QT ppl and doesn't even have a QT mod.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

Keep hope alive I guess. It’s never gonna happen and it’s honestly kind of comforting in a twisted way to know that no matter what TW take from us, they can’t ever achieve their goal.

Im sure someone will find out and will care and you won’t care that they care but go off

Being a homosexual has nothing to do with this? Gay men are still men and gay women are still women so this is irrelevant. It would be homophobic of someone to not want a member of the same sex to use the correct sex based spaces just because that person is gay. It’s not transphobic to want sex based spaces to be sex based. It’s safeguarding.

You’re not responsible for making everyone feel comfortable. It’s just shitty of you to make people feel uncomfortable in spaces you shouldn’t be in to begin with.

Show me a neutral, reputable source that claims man and woman are genders, and I will apologize for misgendering you and only refer to you as male from here on out. If you can’t, I’ve done nothing wrong.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

I'm not taking anything from you I'm just trying to fix myself. To me it's comforting to know that even if I ultimately fail at least I never gave up and that I died never being at peace with what nature wants me to be.

Gay men are still men and gay women are still women so this is irrelevant.

Trans women are still women so ofc it's relevant.

Show me a neutral, reputable source that claims man and woman are genders

Already making it impossible for me, y'all love the dictionary but I know that citing it, or anyone in social sciences who knows that gender exists won't appease you.

Anyway that's not my point. It's still against the rules and is literally in the sidebar. Please just don't refer to me as anything.

Still though, if you say man is an adult human male then that's not me, because I am not an adult male, I never finished male puberty so I am not an "adult".

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

  1. Lmao to almost all of this comment. It’s all been addressed multiple times by multiple people on this post so I’m moving on

-2. So once again you can prove nothing. Shocker.

-3. I’ll call you a boy then, although if you’re over 18 you’re an adult regardless of whether you finished puberty just as you’re a man regardless of how you look or feel

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

So once again you can prove nothing. Shocker.

It's not like there's any proof you'd actually accept lol you just want to be right too.

I’ll call you a boy then, although if you’re over 18 you’re an adult regardless of whether you finished puberty just as you’re a man regardless of how you look or feel

Honestly that's better but it still only describes a biology that I'd rather keep secret and not how my life is at all. It's like telling me I'm brown-haired...like okay? Yeah technically under the dye but everyone thinks I'm blonde. Not sure if I'll ever get why people have to be defined by that in all situations regardless of how they live. What would be the point of calling myself a boy

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Do you have any idea how much I’d rather be wrong?! It would be so much easier for me to accept TW are women. The reason I can’t do that is because it can’t be proven. I’d rather believe it because regardless I have to be effected by it.

Why is it better to be called a boy if a boy is still a male? I just don’t get this.

If You dyed your hair blonde you’re a blonde though? Like not naturally but you can actually truly really have blonde hair. If your roots show people would know it’s not natural but you’d still be blonde? Sex doesn’t work that way, though. I have no problem in theory calling TW transwomen, but when TW call themselves women I stop using the term TW and just call them men. If they can’t just refer to themselves as TW then I’m not going to either, but I’m not going to pretend they are a woman. If you had never called yourself a woman id have never called you a man. I have no issue with using the term transwoman here.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

It would be so much easier for me to accept TW are women

Well I'm trying I'll let you know in the future I guess

Why is it better to be called a boy if a boy is still a male? I just don’t get this.

Idk it's still bad but at least it's not a man, only men abused me not boys, I promised I would never grow up to become one.

If You dyed your hair blonde you’re a blonde though? Like not naturally but you can actually truly really have blonde hair. If your roots show people would know it’s not natural but you’d still be blonde? Sex doesn’t work that way, though.

It's kinda the same though like obvi if someone were in my home and saw me in the shower or something they'd know but externally I'm still the same. Transitioning isn't as simple as dyeing hair gosh I wish it was.

Also yeah idk transwoman is such an othering term that puts me in a category totally apart from women. I'm not gonna call myself that even if it means people call me a man bc of it. I'd rather be seen as a trans woman, with the space, without having to convince people than rely on people's kindness in calling me a transwoman.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Does it ever occur to you that maybe your abuse as a boy impacted you having dysphoria and identifying as your perception of a woman? Genuinely asking, not making a point tho it does seem like it’s a factor to me.

My point is still that dyed or not, you’re literally a blonde. Sex isn’t something that can be changed, and woman is a sex based term. Being blonde means you have blonde hair, being a woman means you’re an adult female human.

You’re still relying on people’s kindness when they call you trans woman with the space. To most people transwoman/trans woman is just code for man. We may understand it to refer to a type of man who wants to present as a woman,and we may be kind enough to call them she/her and not call them men, but it’s still just a word we use out of politesse, it doesn’t mean we mean it or believe it. Same for transmen/trans men. It translates to us as a type of woman who wants to present as a man.