GC: How would you react if you saw a trans woman in the women's restroom?

submitted by GenderbenderShe/her/hers from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (11 children)

My definition isn't based on logic though

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

Which makes it incompatible with the entirety of the world.

Try and think about if everyone else chose to base their definitions on their feelings. Not yours, I don’t want you to tell me how you feel about this.

What would happen if doctors chose to practice medicine according to how they feel? The doctor tells the patient that he doesn’t think they are in pain, or have an enlarged liver so no imaging or tests for patient. Biologically, the patient has a cancerous mass growing inside their liver.

Is this a doctor you want to see?

Imagine you are responsible for a child. Their teacher has taught the child that ckeorbxhsjxgnnsiv is the correct alphabet, because this is what the teacher feels is correct.

Are you happy to send your child into their class to learn the basics of English?

A kitten has a fractured leg. The veterinarian believes the kitten is a horse. Should he give the kitten a horse-sized dose of sedation? Is the kitten biologically capable of accepting the sedatives based on the perceptions or opinions of the vet?

What if someone feels that consent is something they feel and not an agreement from the other person? What if someone feels that homicide is defined as killing anyone they like?

Do you see how this is a senseless and potentially extremely harmful way to think?

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (9 children)

Try and think about if everyone else chose to base their definitions on their feelings.

Everyone does, though. Everything is based on our perceptions or introspection of those perceptions

The doctor tells the patient that he doesn’t think they are in pain,

Well now the doctor is applying their feelings to the patient, that's different.

Are you happy to send your child into their class to learn the basics of English?

No, I would send my child elsewhere.

Should he give the kitten a horse-sized dose of sedation? Is the kitten biologically capable of accepting the sedatives based on the perceptions or opinions of the vet?

Yes, there could be a very good reason to do so that we just don't understand yet.

What if someone feels that consent is something they feel and not an agreement from the other person? What if someone feels that homicide is defined as killing anyone they like?

Both of these require direct interaction with others and their feelings too though. Someone is free to feel consent doesn't apply to them but not to impose that definition on others

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

No, they don’t. Insisting everyone thinks like you is becoming a real problem with communicating. You have already been told that other people do not define the world around them by how it makes them feel.

All these people are bad because they impose their definitions on others but you are doing just that by trying to tell me that I and everyone else think a certain way, and do things the way you do, for the same reasons you do.

If you have any animals I beg you to relinquish them to someone who would not allow someone to overdose them. If you give too much or too little of wormer or flea treatment you can harm or kill an animal. Those doses are species and size dependent.

Why would you send the child to a different teacher? What is wrong with them learning the alphabet from the original teacher?

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Why would you send the child to a different teacher?

I disagree with the teacher's method.

All these people are bad because they impose their definitions on others but you are doing just that by trying to tell me that I and everyone else think a certain way, and do things the way you do, for the same reasons you do.

All I'm really saying is that "feelings" kinda also includes your opinions and beliefs about the world. Is feeling something is correct or factual not a feeling?

If you have any animals I beg you to relinquish them to someone who would not allow someone to overdose them

I love cats and I'm getting one soon, I miss the cats I grew up with dearly. I would just listen to my vet if my vet told me it would be okay for them to give the higher dose, I trust their judgment.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Why do you disagree with their method?

Any according to your line of thinking, anyone could say they are a vet based on really feeling like they are one even if they haven’t been to vet school or even seen an animal.

Feelings are not factual, they are emotions. Emotions are an idiosyncratic experience. Unknowable to anyone else.
You aren’t just saying that though.
You are using this line of unreasoning to claim that woman is a feeling because you feel badly otherwise.

You have used this line of unreason to argue that anyone who has woman feelings should have legal right to spaces and resources that have been designated as being for females.

This isn’t just kinda sorta feeling like actually derrples emotions are pretty important, this is an argument for the elimination of female rights cloaked in riddling about emotions, and what I perceive as attempts at guilt, such as repeated negative references to your own appearance, and references to your own pain.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Because I think the alphabet is different lol

Any according to your line of thinking, anyone could say they are a vet based on really feeling like they are one

Sure, they could, that's always a possibility when working with anyone. My hope is that people who say they are vets have put in the expected work though.

I'm an emotional person I won't apologize for that. I already know not to expect any empathy from GC people for my dysphoria or situation. I've decided not to let that beat me down.

You have used this line of unreason to argue that anyone who has woman feelings should have legal right to spaces and resources that have been designated as being for females

Yes, I generally think that we should respect and believe people's identities regardless of biology. How could I ever believe otherwise?

Maybe I would or will think differently if I were actually female and didn't have to base my personhood on something I know to be true but that isn't obvious to other people. I hope not, I hope I would still be someone who accepts others' identities even if I don't understand how they arrived at them.

And...tbh it is kind of rich to pull out the tired "trans people are being manipulative by talking about their dysphoria" trope? As if half of my talks with people on here haven't been them basically calling me a man and saying I'm an awful abusive male invading spaces. That also reads like clear emotional manipulation to me.

This debate kinda just has emotion baked into it.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

But why do you think it’s different? The teacher really does feel that and it’s not like she’s hurting anyone by believing her version of the alphabet is the one everyone else at the school uses.

Not letting her teach hurts her deeply. She’s always felt like she’s an English teacher, ever since she was a toddler! She used to carry books around and wear specs, she has spent literally years practicing giving lectures. Refusing to let her teach your child is like saying she’s not really an English teacher!

It has emotion baked in, FOR YOU. For me, it’s pretty tedious, but not emotional. Other people do not feel what you feel, and aren’t taking everything written here personally.

It’s not a tired old trope when it happens all the time. It’s not a tired old trope when it’s literally in your refutation that it’s being used.

Emotional manipulation is trying to sway or derail a discussion.

It is not people stating their opposing ideas and not being compelled by your emotions and opinions. We are not emotionally manipulating you by not changing our perceptions of reality to one more in line with your own.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

And that's great for her I just really feel that my kid should be taught an alphabet that I support

Not letting her teach hurts her deeply. She’s always felt like she’s an English teacher, ever since she was a toddler

She can still be an English teacher. And I don't get the comparison here tbh it's weird bc like trans women aren't providing a service or educating we're just vibing.

Refusing to let her teach your child is like saying she’s not really an English teacher!

If it's that important and I knew her then I'd send my kid and just talk to them afterwards

We are not emotionally manipulating you by not changing our perceptions of reality to one more in line with your own.

No, you are by insinuating that the way I live my life is abusive or dangerous...

Also, nor am I by not changing my perceptions to match yours

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Oh so you don’t support her? Guess you want her to kill herself.

I am not insinuating anything about you when I discuss large groups of people, such as half of the entire human population. You choose to respond as though everything in these discussions about you.

When you don’t concede we do not talk about our appearances and depression in order to garner a response that is not further critical of males in general.