GC: How would you react if you saw a trans woman in the women's restroom?

submitted by GenderbenderShe/her/hers from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (56 children)

I simply don't believe that, nothing is impossible. I won't accept something that viscerally wrong.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (55 children)

You can choose denial but acceptance would be better for you in the long run. Why wait an entire lifetime for an impossibility when there is the possibility for greater self acceptance while you’re alive

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (54 children)

Because that self-acceptance would require me to accept something that feels and has always felt incredibly wrong to me. I would be a different person entirely and so it's kind of pointless to accept that because "I" wouldn't be around to live that life; it'd be some version of me content with being amab. That's so unfamiliar to me that I find it totally unrelatable.

Also idk it took me forever to accept that I'm trans and I'm still kind of ashamed of it so I'd rather not tax my mental health with accepting additional things

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (53 children)

And you don’t think it’s better to accept the unchangeable, maybe improve some patterns of thought like the ones that say maleness is the worst torture imaginable?

Preferring not to process information that is painful is not a healthy practice. If you prefer not to tax yourself with accepting material reality that’s your choice, but it’s not a healthy one.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (52 children)

I just cannot accept something that I did not choose and that has felt wrong to me my entire life. I don't think it's the worst torture imaginable for everyone, just for me. Idk what information I could "process" that would in any way improve my situation or how I conceptualize myself. You can let biology control you but I don't think that's healthy either

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (51 children)

Biology doesn’t control me though. I think this may be a projection. My biology just is. No matter what I may feel about it, it is. Interfering with it will not meaningfully alter my biology.

Every day people are having to make peace with things they cannot control about their bodies. People get arthritis, osteoporosis, paralysed, they lose limbs and sight and hearing. They are short or tall or broad shouldered or prone to fat.

Your denial and emotional arguments aren’t going to change material reality. I’m not trying to take this coping mechanism away from you but I won’t treat your emotions about things as a reason to also indulge in fantasy and idealistic wishes when there are real things.

For people who don’t have these type of issues with gender, the rhetoric can seem kind of..navel gazey. It can look to outsiders like a request we put aside our own realities and perceptions in order to allow someone else to better feed their own idealised version of themselves.

Imagine being told that someone can’t achieve, idk, heaven or enlightenment or some other ideal unless you agree the ideal exists, you see it, and you say so to the person aiming for heaven.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (50 children)

You don't have to believe in anything to recognized that trans people are in the process in or moving towards changing our biology.

I don't really care about arguing based on logic. Emotions are the core of who we are.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (49 children)

I disagree entirely that emotions are the core of who we are, and that trans people are meaningfully changing their biology.

Cosmetically they can alter some things to a degree, but it isn’t possible to physically become another thing.

I’m unsure what your goal is here if you won’t engage with logic and insist on answering things only from a personal perspective.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (48 children)

It's very possible, humans are not as sexually dimorphic as many other mammals. Hormones control and influence a lot and we are only getting better at changing people's phenotype. The shape of people's bodies, our sex characteristics, the hormones we run on, that's all biology, all changeable to a growing extent.

[–]MarkTwainiac 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

It's very possible, humans are not as sexually dimorphic as many other mammals. Hormones control and influence a lot and we are only getting better at changing people's phenotype. The shape of people's bodies, our sex characteristics, the hormones we run on, that's all biology, all changeable to a growing extent.

If humans are not as sexually dimorphic as many other mammals, how come that even amongst those in trans community who have gone to the greatest lengths using Big Pharma hormone formulations (and sometimes surgeries) to alter their outward appearance to give the impression they have secondary sex characteristics of the opposite sex, only TPs who are biologically female get pregnant and have babies?

If humans are not as sexually dimorphic as many other mammals, how come that even amongst those in trans community who have gone to the greatest lengths using Big Pharma hormone formulations (and sometimes surgeries) to alter their outward appearance to give the impression they have secondary sex characteristics of the opposite sex, how come male TPs are winning and setting records in girls' and women's sports but female TPs are not winning and setting records in boys' and men's sports? How come male TPs are bumping girls and women off teams, out of competition, off awards podiums and out of record books - but not a single female TP has done the same to any boys or men? How come numerous male TPs have taken top place and won titles and trophies in women's and girls' sports, but no female TPs have managed to distinguish themselves similarly in men's and boys' sports. Is it because trans boys and trans men don't try as hard as trans girls and trans women?

The shape of people's bodies, our sex characteristics, the hormones we run on, that's all biology, all changeable to a growing extent.

Yes, some fat can be redistributed, but there is no way to make a male skeleton into a female on, or vice versa. There is no way to change male kidneys into female kidneys. Males who suppress T and take estradiol still have hearts and lungs that are 25-38% and 10-12% larger and more powerful respectively than female people of equivalent height, weight and age - and male twitch fibers, male tendons, male airway cells, male explosiveness. Females who take exogenous testosterone will get deeper voices, facial hair, male-pattern balding and much higher rates of CV disease - but they still will have female pelvises, and thus female Q angles; female hearts, lungs, hands and feet and all the rest.

Also, you don't seem to understand the difference between primary and secondary sex characteristics. Or between outwardly appearing to be something and actually being it. Used to be, learning about Potemkin villages, animals changing coloration, trompe-l'œil, subterfuge, FX in media were standard parts of growing up. Used to be, most people grew up to understand that surface is not substance, illusion and reality are not the same thing, and there's often a major difference between the outer packaging and what's inside. Did you really reach adulthood not learning any of this?

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (35 children)

Repeating your beliefs and opinions to me as though they were fact is convincing you, far more than me or any other reader, imo.