Qt/tra, how does identity form?

submitted by HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]BiologyIsReal 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Do you really want that I repost all thoses links that show how women have been hurt because of policies that trans activists have advocated for?

Males who "pass" as women, supposing any exists in the first place, don't have the same needs as actual women. For instance, hey have been socialized differently for starter and they have more chances to fight back against violent men because they are physically stronger than women.

As for trans identified people don't have the political power to rewrite society as they would like... Let me tell you some things about my country, Argentina. In 2012, it was passed the gender identity law, which legalized self-ID. This was an overnight change as there was no a previous law that allowed to legally "change" your sex provided you meet certain (meaningless) requirements like in other countries. Although local transactivists have obtained some judicial victories since the '90s that paved the way for the law.

This law also egalized "medical transition", which should be provided for free and on demand. You have to keep in mind the called "sex change surgeries" where considered ilegal by Argentinian law. They were only allowed if a judicial order was obtained first, something that didn't started happening until the mid-'90s. So, this was also an overnight change.

This law allows minor to legally "change" their sex with the approval of their parents. Kids as young as five years old have been able to do this. This allow minor to access GnRH agonists and cross-sex hormones with the approval of their parents. Surgeries for minor are allowed with parental approval and a judicial order.

Transactivists say their lobby for this law started in 2007, i.e. around the the time the Yogyakarta Principles were signed. Indee one of the signers is Argentinian trans identified person who is one of the people behind this law. The law was approved in their first round through the Congress and gained support across through the political spectrum. It was approved in the Senate by unanimity, with only 1 abstention. The law was praised by local newsmedia across the political spectrum, too, while respecting the "indentity" of trans identified people. Because trans activists have previously trained journalists to do exactly that, you know?

Trans activists claimed the law would not affect nobody but trans identified people. And journalists repeated those lies while the law was being discussed. However, even though the law said nothing about sex-seggregated spaces, it has been used since then to undermine women-only's spaces. Because it turns out that if a man can legally "change" his sex, he has to be treated as a "women" by the law. Shocking, I know.

Now let's talk about abortion. This has always been a divisive issue, however, after many years of advocacy by feminists, one of the many law projects finally got to be discussed in the Congress. It was approved by the Chamber of Deputies, but it was rejected by the Senate. A simillar project with some modifications to make it more "acceptable" was discussed in 2020 and abortion was finally legalized last December. It must be said it had not the same amount of support than the gender identity law and until the end it was not sure whether history would repeat itself. And because of the gender identity law, the abortion law had to be writen as if women weren't the only ones able to get pregnant. And ever since it was passed the Catholic Church had been in arms to get it repealed.

And in spite of women being more than half the population, I think the abortion law has more chances to be repealled or not being applied than the gender identity law does. I've to say religious zealots don't like the trans issues either, but at the end of the day, they care more about aboortion.

So, when I say trans activists have a lot of political power I'm not making this stuff up. And I talked only about my country here, but trans activists have got many political victories in several other countries, too. It's ridiculous you keep claiming the trans lobby is, indeed, very powerfull.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Transitioned trans women are physically weaker. I wish you would stop presenting that wasn’t true.

I can’t speak to Argentina but I can say that trans people in my country had no national level protections ok any kind until lasts year when the Supreme Court decided that we should have employment protections. We still have no other protections on the national level. Like none. I don’t know if you understand our legal situation fully.

Abortion is a separate issue because of the religious “this is murder” component. They aren’t mutually exclusive and I for what it’s worth am vocally pro choice.

[–]BiologyIsReal 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

My claim was males who identify as women are stronger thatn women.

I'm not an expert, but I know more about the political situation of the US than you think. In the US there is not a federal law like the gender identity law in Argentina, and many Republicans are not on board with transgenderism. However, American trans acitivist have advanced many of their goals there. There are many males who identify as trans who are being discriminated at work, particularlt the heterosexual ones, although I think race and class play a role in this, too. There is a big market for "medical transition", even for minors. Informed consent seems to be norm, and many can access surgeries and hormones without a clinical diagnostic. A good bunch of the Media is very pro-TRA. Transgenderism is being promoted in schools and universities. Many people are expect to state their "prefered pronouns" at work. Disidents and people who question the TRA narrative are punished, particularly women. Males have competed in women's sports. Males have been sent to the female estate. Other women-only's spaces are being erased too and women have been hurt because of this, but this ignored by trans activists. Recently there was a cover of a girl who was sexually assaulted by a boy in a skirt on the girls' bathroom of the school. It's simple not true the trans lobby don't have political power in your country. Also American trans activists are very influential abroad.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

We aren’t even influential here. Where I am I have employment protections federally and literally no other protections since my state has none.

[–]BiologyIsReal 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Maybe you don't notice, but current discurses about transgenderism are very American. One example is the way TRA talk about race. The same arguments are repeated in other English speaking countries. The same arguments are repetead in non English speaking countries. I heard many of the same arguments from local TRA despite they have even less sense in Spanish. The fact is the US has a lot of political and cultural influence abroad and a long history of interventionosm. American trans activists are not different. And there is no lack of people eager to adopt the lastest trends from the US.