Both: Is gender dysphoria a mental illness? & Is being trans a mental illness?

submitted by peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]catoborosnonbinary 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

It’s just literally physically having "transitioned"

Not all trans people transition.

I think the ones who believe TWAW or believe in sex spectrums and gender identity are more deeply mentally ill.

I am a surgically transitioned nonbinary person. I have an opinion from an old-school senior consultant psychiatrist that I have no signs of any mental disorder. You are welcome to believe what you like, but I offer myself as a data point in refutation of your views. It is worth noting that autism spectrum disorders are highly overrepresented in the trans community, perhaps at the level of 25%(?) of the trans population.

I think sex is binary* and immutable. *Except for intersex people, who comprise around 0.018% of the population, according to Leonard Sax.

Cult-like leftist trans activists can be fanatical ideologues, but I would hesitate to call them mentally ill. Would we call the deeply religious or political ideologues mentally ill? QAnon? Anyone else who disagrees with me? No doubt there is some correlation with mental disorders or abuse history but correlation does not prove causation.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Somebody who doesn’t transition* but calls themselves trans still literally hasn’t transitioned…

That’s my point. There are many people who are mentally ill enough (or "woke" enough) to buy into the current mainstream trans rhetoric while not actually transitioning, some of whom consider themselves trans- Im saying just like a TW considers himself a woman but isn’t one, I don’t think someone who hasn’t done anything to transition is actually trans. I think being trans is the literal physical state and that’s why the dsm doesn’t classify it as a mental illness- it’s a physical, not mental, state. A technicality for sure, but I still think it’s a relevant difference.

I would absolutely call anyone who vehemently believes in multiple falsehoods even when there’s ample proof that their beliefs are false, and then tried to force those beliefs on everyone else, mentally ill. It’s not about agreement or disagreement- it’s about the refusal to accept fact based reality and the desperate "logic" offered to justify clinging to something that is obviously not true.

Eta- we can prove sex. We can prove non binary isn’t real, that TW aren’t women, and transmen aren’t men. Nobody can really prove the existence or lack of existence of any religious deity. So I’d say that people who buy into gender ideology are even more mentally ill than your examples. Because they deny proven reality.

If You believe a man can turn into a woman or just is one somehow because he says so- if you truly believe this, and aren’t just saying it to be woke, inclusive, or on "the right side of history", if you’ve had biology and anatomy explained to you and you still buy the BS, I do think there’s mental illness there somewhere.

I also think most allies and even most trans and NB people know their ideology is bogus.

*i dont mean full on bottom surgery transition, I mean at least hormones and whatever attempts at presenting as the opposite sex

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

And frankly the fact that you actually think you’re non binary to me tells me you do in fact have a mental illness.

If You call yourself non binary because you like the label, I’d think differently. If You genuinely think you’re "non binary" then your therapist is incorrect in their assessment of you.

I honestly think anyone who "surgically transitions" ie alters a perfectly healthy body because their brain tells them it’s wrong (not just cosmetic surgery, but like trying to look like the opposite sex or eliminate your sexed traits- idk what you mean you’ve done) is mentally ill.

I also think a lot of mental health professionals are afraid to acknowledge that truth.

[–]catoborosnonbinary 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

DSM-IV certainly defined Gender Identity Disorder (and Gender Identity Disorder Not Otherwise Specified for us nonbinary types) as mental disorders, and I was fine with that. DSM-5 unifies many of the concepts into Gender Dysphoria. There are still people who describe homosexuality as a mental illness; it was removed in DSM-II.

No one should be forcing their beliefs on anyone. I oppose ideology and encourage everyone to examine their beliefs.

The concept of gender identity seems to simplify explanations of various types of gender incongruence, as distinct from biological sex which we can measure. That said, everyone must remember that it is only a model, and just because it seems to explain things does not mean that it is a "real" thing. I have a physics background, and think of luminiferous aether as an example of a discarded model, and zero-point energy and dark matter where there is still no consensus.

My theory is that there is something like gender identity, analogous to sexual orientation, and both have strong roots in sexual dimorphism and evolutionary biology: the benefit of having these and them being strong is more important than their "accurate" alignment with reproductive goals in every case. A homosexuality and transgender identity could be described as spandrels.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don’t really know what point youre making with the DSM? My understanding is that being trans is not in the DSM- that’s all I said about it. Im not trying to be rude at all lol, honesty just wasn’t sure what point you’re making and I want to understand so I can respond. What I was inferring is that being trans is not in the DSM, but the mental health issues that most trans people seem to have are. Which is why I said being trans is not in and of itself a mental illness, but that the people who are trans are mentally ill.

IMO, Gender identity is stereotypes or the rejection of stereotypes or it’s just a phrase people seem to throw out when they can’t explain or answer how they identify as something they physically aren’t. I have never been given an explanation that wasn’t either "IDK I just know" or " insert gender stereotypes/associations/expectations"

My whole thing is just- gender identity is meaningless to anyone but the person who has it. Sex doesn’t change or go away because someone identifies as something other than their sex. Sex is what actually matters. Sex is what should be protected and considered over any gender identity.