QT, if gender is innate to identity

submitted by HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]Juniperius 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

For example, it is considered feminine to pluck your eyebrows. Which takes up a stupid amount of time, and is painful, and doesn't serve any purpose except to pander to the male gaze. If a woman doesn't want to pluck her eyebrows, people may consider that "masculine," when it may just be about not wanting to waste time on something that hurts and doesn't actually improve her life. There could be any number of examples like this. Femininity is often painful, time consuming, hobbling, expensive, etc. It's possible to not do anything active to make oneself look feminine, and also not do anything active to make oneself look masculine, and the result will often be interpreted by outsiders as being masculine.

[–]MarkTwainiac 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's possible to not do anything active to make oneself look feminine, and also not do anything active to make oneself look masculine, and the result will often be interpreted by outsiders as being masculine.

This seems to me to be a generational thing. I don't think it applies to older women. We are invisible to much of the world so outsiders aren't interpreting how we look as masculine, feminine or neutral - strangers/outsiders don't see us or register us in their consciousness at all.

I think it's a class thing too. Whilst it's true that many women "of a certain age" are into trying to stay young & "feminine" looking today like those TV housewives, a majority of working-class women I see & know are very basic & neutral in appearance - practical hair, no makeup, comfortable clothes, sensible shoes, little or no jewelry. Many younger women with jobs & kids that I encounter are the same way.

[–]theory_of_thisan actual straight crossdresser 2 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 5 fun -  (12 children)

I don't expect male and female gender norms to be identical perfect mirrors.

It's possible to not do anything active to make oneself look feminine, and also not do anything active to make oneself look masculine, and the result will often be interpreted by outsiders as being masculine.

Well currently not cutting your hair is usually coded female. So that isn't a universal rule. Men very much are judged on what they are doing.

[–]Juniperius 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Cutting/not cutting hair is a little more complicated, though. Long hair requires a lot more care. I've grown my hair long a few times in my life, and I always end up chopping it off again because I get sick of the time it takes to keep it untangled and clean. When it's short, I barely even have to shampoo it. It's far less effort to have someone give me a trim every other month or so.

[–]MarkTwainiac 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

Well currently not cutting your hair is usually coded female.

But that's only true amongst some people in some places, & it's a very recent development in the West. From the late 60s through the 1990s, lots of guys had shoulder length hair. Some still do. There are lots of well-known men who customarily wear their hair quite long. I don't see men like Eddie Vedder, Jared Leto, Keanu Reeves, Brad Pitt, Dave Grohl, Jason Momoa, Harry Styles, Brian May, Robert Plant, Hozier as "coded female" coz of their long hair.

[–]theory_of_thisan actual straight crossdresser 2 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 4 fun -  (9 children)

I don't think all of gender is hard coded. I explicitly do think it is strongly cultural in parts. I'm trying to work out what it is. I've often said I think they are empty flags that are always completed by culture. That means things can drift, become unisex, disappear, swap. But "social gender" remains. Rockstars with long hair are not the end of gender. The hair length pattern remains a mild pattern in most of society.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

That pattern of hair length also correlated with military. Short hair is practical to care for, easier to delouse, and can prevent someone getting a grip on your head.

Long hair can be made ornamental. It requires more upkeep. It’s often impractical but pretty.

Men are stronger and made up historic military with very few exceptions.

Women were property. The pattern you see doesn’t exist in a vacuum. You’re not looking at causative factors for these trends and instead assign them to nature or preference.

[–]theory_of_thisan actual straight crossdresser 2 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 4 fun -  (7 children)

I thought you didn't care about my opinions?

I'd love to chat more but you engage and then tell me not to.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

I’ve never read a username before a comment.

It’s not interest, it’s constructive criticism and food for thought for you. Think about it for a few days instead of dismissing it immediately and responding.

[–]theory_of_thisan actual straight crossdresser 2 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 5 fun -  (5 children)

It is not constructive criticism to say men cannot comment on women's sexuality or thoughts.

Just as it's not useful to say women cannot comment on men's sexuality or thoughts.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

They can comment, they just should know better than to argue when women disagree with him regarding women’s sexualities and thoughts. He should know better than to present his opinions as though they are facts or common sense.

A man who takes constructive criticism would realise this is not about having opinions, but treating those opinions as though they are insightful or experience based when he has no experience being a woman.

[–]theory_of_thisan actual straight crossdresser 1 insightful - 5 fun1 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 5 fun -  (3 children)

Do you think a woman "should know better" than to argue when men disagree with her regarding men’s sexualities and thoughts?