QT: Even by your own beliefs, sexuality can't be based on "gender identity"

submitted by BiologyIsReal from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]ZveroboyAlinaIs clownfish a clown or a fish? 15 insightful - 4 fun15 insightful - 3 fun16 insightful - 4 fun -  (4 children)

Sounds like this thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_model_of_disability

That "people have disabilities not because of disease, but because of how society is treating those people".

So their idea is - "if society will accept disabled people more, than all disabilities would dissapear and people will become healthy".

Which is obviously some post-modernistic bullshit with no sense of reality.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 4 insightful - 6 fun4 insightful - 5 fun5 insightful - 6 fun -  (3 children)

There is a difference between a disability and a condition. I was classed as having a "specific learning disability" in school, yet most of my struggles were not due to my LD, but due to the school system discriminating against me. I was in a self-contained class FULL TIME until high school, even though my behavior wasn't disruptive. Then in high school, when I was in general ed, I had no say in my IEP. The IEP meeting at the end of sophomore was full of a bunch of adults talking about me without involving me in the conversation. They decided next year they will work on "a better understanding of social cues" without asking me if that's what I wanted to work on. Would people like it if a bunch of professionals talked about them without involving them in the conversation. I didn't write my IEP goals, they did.

I fully agree with the social model, as do many other disabled people. Disability is a result of interaction with society. For instance, if you're in a wheelchair, there will be many places not accessible to you. If you're autistic, you don't interact the way the neuro-majority interact. That's what disability is. Disability doesn't mean not healthy and it doesn't necessarily mean people will become healthy if treated better. Though the way society treats disabled people is abysmal.

For instance, a lot of disabled people have medical conditions and use healthcare but don't have access to it. I used to have a painful and rather embarrassing condition that barred me from working and not many doctors treat. The only doctors that treated it were not in our network, and I was incredibly lucky my parents paid for the treatment so I could work. If we had universal health care, I could have just made an appointment without worrying about payments. And don't even get me started on insulin prices. Many states have work requirements for Medicaid, so that means people have to work to get treatment for a condition that makes them unable to work. A paradox!

I am fortunate enough to be able to work. Yet some people just can't work. SSI pays $771 per month for an zaindividual, and that doesn't even cover rent. Most non-working people who I know living on their own had their parents pay for their home. One of my disabed friends was stuck with abusive parents because she couldn't afford to move out.

The healthcare thing is specific to the US as every other developed country has universal health care. Though other countries also segregate disabled children in schools. In France kids often don't get help for ADHD. China stigmatizes autism. Granted these things happen in the US as well.

I would not cure my LD as the real problem for me was the way society treated me and not my LD itself. I fully support the social model.

[–]MarkTwainiac 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Disability is a result of interaction with society. For instance, if you're in a wheelchair, there will be many places not accessible to you.

No, part of disability is a result of interaction(s) with society. It's not like when alone without any social contact people's disabilities suddenly recede or disappear. Many people who rely on wheelchairs don't just use or need them outside their homes.

Within their own homes, many people with disabilities find there are many places not accessible to them. For example, wheelchair users find that the inaccessible places to them in their own pads might include the kitchen sink, the toilet, the medicine cabinet, the tub or shower, upstairs, downstairs, the clothes washing machine, wall-mounted overhead kitchen cabinets, the freezer compartment of their fridge, the microwave mounted over the stove, the rods on which to hang their clothes in closets...

Many people who are disabled are homebound and have very little interactions with society. This doesn't make their disabilities any less impairing.

SSI pays $771 per month for an zaindividual, and that doesn't even cover rent.

I think you might be confusing the base payment amount for those in the US who get federal disability payments known as Supplemental Security Income (SSI) and the payments that go to adults with a history of working who are eligible for Social Security Disability Insurance (SSDI).

What Is Supplemental Security Income (SSI)? SSI provides minimum basic financial assistance to older adults and persons with disabilities (regardless of age) with very limited income and resources. Federal SSI benefits from the Social Security Administration are often supplemented by state programs.

What Is Social Security Disability Insurance (SSDI)? SSDI supports individuals who are disabled and have a qualifying work history, either through their own employment or a family member (spouse/parent).

What Is the difference between SSI and SSDI? The major difference is that SSI determination is based on age/disability and limited income and resources, whereas SSDI determination is based on disability and work credits.

In addition, in most states, an SSI recipient will automatically qualify for Medicaid. A person with SSDI will automatically qualify for Medicare after 24 months of receiving disability payments (individuals with amyotrophic lateral sclerosis [ALS] are eligible for Medicare immediately).

https://www.ncoa.org/article/ssi-vs-ssdi-what-are-these-benefits-how-they-differ

If you are eligible for Social Security Disability Insurance (SSDI) benefits, the amount you receive each month will be based on your average lifetime earnings before your disability began. It is not based on how severe your disability is or how much income you have. Most SSDI recipients receive between $800 and $1,800 per month (the average for 2021 is $1,277). However, if you are receiving disability payments from other sources, as discussed below, your payment may be reduced.

https://www.disabilitysecrets.com/how-much-in-ssd.html

The new SSI federal base amount is $794 per month for an individual and $1,191 per month for a couple. The SSI payment amounts are higher in states that pay a supplementary SSI payment.

While exact Social Security retirement and disability benefit amounts depend on the lifetime earnings of the recipient, here are the average benefit amounts anticipated for 2021:

average retirement benefit: $1,543 (an increase of $20)

average disability benefit: $1,277 (an increase of $16)

average widow's or widower's benefit: $1,453 (an increase of $19).

https://www.nolo.com/legal-updates/social-security-and-ssi-disability-and-benefit-amounts-for-2021.html

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 2 insightful - 6 fun2 insightful - 5 fun3 insightful - 6 fun -  (1 child)

I think you might be confusing the base payment amount for those in the US who get federal disability payments known as Supplemental Security Income (SSI) and the payments that go to adults with a history of working who are eligible for Social Security Disability Insurance (SSDI).

I was specifically referring to SSI. SSI is for people with no work history and less than 2K. SSDI is for people who worked. Still, it doesn't cover rent and my state at one point cut Section 8 programs, but they're brought back, but there's a huge waitlist.

[–]MarkTwainiac 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes, I know you mentioned SSI specifically. But all your statements pertaining to persons with disabilities in general have assumed that the typical or average person with disabilities is a very young person who still relies on parents to provide them with a home and/or financial support because they have never held a job or is of limited work experience and low earning potential:

I am fortunate enough to be able to work. Yet some people just can't work. SSI pays $771 per month for an zaindividual, and that doesn't even cover rent. Most non-working people who I know living on their own had their parents pay for their home. One of my disabed friends was stuck with abusive parents because she couldn't afford to move out.

When the fact of the matter is, most people with disabilities are adults with working histories who haven't lived with their/our parents for decades. Many are people whose parents died long ago.