QT/Trans: Trans women say feminism and women's rights should include ALL women, and this means anyone who identifies as a woman. But 99% of women are cis. Why then do trans women not care about the history and rights of 99% of women?

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[–][deleted] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Since women experience hardships and difficulties that transwomen likely never will, why would those be of any concern to transwomen? (I mean, they should but it likely just doesn't enter transwomen's thoughts because some of it is likely incomprehensible.) I'm trans and have been made aware of many things I never had thought about or considered before because I'm not female.

I'd like to think that transwomen who think and act like that are just ignorant and don't know any better, not that that should absolve them but it seems better than if they were intentionally disregarding things and being bullies. But maybe I'm wrong and it's worse, or it just makes no difference.

[–][deleted] 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

(Thank you for the comment. I'm going to mirror ur same terminology/spelling here just for consistency)

Because if transwomen acknowledge that women experience hardships and difficulties much different from them (and that they will never face and likely incomprehensible as you say), that would require the acknowledgement that transwomen and women are fundamentally, innately different (and this conclusion is not allowed for feminists to make). And, if they're fundamentally, innately different, then they have separate issues and separate experiences, and thus require separate spaces and separate movements. I know this isn't a forum for personal beliefs, but personally speaking I (and I think many GCs) would support separate women and transwomen movements and spaces. However, transwomen rail against the idea of cis-only spaces, cis-only groups, cis-only movements and discussion of cis-only oppression and issues, saying it's bigoted and delegitimizes their identity as women and goes against "trans women are women" (even though trans-only spaces and groups are allowed and encouraged). Recently, a rape crisis shelter in Vancouver was vandalized with dead rats and violent grafitti by trans activists for being cis-only. It seems to me, transwomen want it both ways: to claim they're no different in their womanhood from cis women and should thus be included in every women's space, while ignoring and denigrating the issues/rights women are concerned about in those spaces. I am wondering why, and how that reasoning is justifiable.

Edit: also, when i say "transwomen" I am talking about those involved in social/political discourse, activism, and feminism, since this is a forum about GC vs. transfeminism/activism. I am not saying every single transwoman has views like this.

[–][deleted] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It seems to me, transwomen want it both ways: to claim they're no different in their womanhood from cis women and should thus be included in every women's space, while ignoring and denigrating the issues/rights women are concerned about in those spaces.

And thanks for your comment, too! What you said here describes what really is often happening. The reasoning for it is probably ignorance, as mentioned, and maybe downplaying what a transwoman does know about what women experience. I'm not really sure why, but it seems like there's a lack of empathy on the part of transwomen in these scenarios (that's not to say that transwomen lack empathy, but being unmoved by another's plight seems really indicative of empathy issues in this instance). That's probably not all, though.

A couple months ago I made and shared a video in the GC sub that I titled along the lines of 'Gender Critical feminists are people too'. MarkTwainiac pointed out how the title implied that I used to not see GC radfems as people, nor do others see them that way, which I told her I thought was (sadly) actually true: anyone who might challenge transgenderism or a trans identity is dehumanized so thoroughly, I feel like. Anything that is brought up by or about women that doesn't include transwomen is lumped in with what might be considered legitimate transphobia and no one sees the difference, so it's socially condoned and somewhat encouraged to not view or think of anyone who says such things as equals or even just people. There is something inherently cruel and hateful about it, it makes me really sad.

[–]VioletRemihomosexual female (aka - lesbian) 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

to not view or think of anyone who says such things as equals or even just people. There is something inherently cruel and hateful about it, it makes me really sad.

That's how things like nazism arised and how "good people" are turned into murdering machines, while thinking they are doing something good. It is common for cults and dictatorships, who require common enemy who is dehumanized.