GC: What are the differences between sex segregation and racial segregation? Why is the former required, while the latter is discriminatory?

submitted by Tea_Or_Coffee from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]Tea_Or_Coffee[S] 7 insightful - 6 fun7 insightful - 5 fun8 insightful - 6 fun -  (4 children)

I-

I'm not making generalizations. I understand most lesbians do not stare at other women sexually in locker rooms, toilet facilities, etc. Why do you think I, I, should be allowed in women's spaces when unlike other lesbians I'm abnormal and sometimes stare at other women sexually in these places?

Though I think you have answered it. That me sexually looking at other women isn't similar to the predatory way men do.

[–]MarkTwainiac 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Why do you think I, I, should be allowed in women's spaces when unlike other lesbians I'm abnormal and sometimes stare at other women sexually in these places?

Though I think you have answered it. That me sexually looking at other women isn't similar to the predatory way men do.

No, what I said was this:

Staring at women in a leering, suggestive, sexually aggressive way in locker rooms, toilet facilities and other such settings is not acceptable for anyone, including lesbians and bi women. It's also NOT customary behavior for lesbians and bi women, either. At all.

Some lesbians and bi women can and do behave in sexually aggressive, inappropriate, predatory ways, just as some heterosexual women can and do. Maybe you are a lesbian who behaves in ways that other women - including other lesbians and bi women- find discomfiting, unnerving and creepy. But I did not say

me sexually looking at other women isn't similar to the predatory way men do.

I have no idea. I don't know you or how you behave IRL. But please don't take my comments to mean that I think because you are female you can do no wrong. Coz that's not my position.

Staring at other persons in locker rooms, loos and other places (such as on public transport or the streets) in a manner likely to make them uncomfortable - for whatever reason - is widely considered inappropriate and impolite. In some countries, making eye contact with another person during conversation is considered rude.

Just as you cannot use your feelings, tendencies and experience as an individual as the basis on which to make gross generalizations about all the world's lesbians and bi women, none of us can use the fact that we are female as an excuse for engaging in socially inappropriate behavior.

[–]Tea_Or_Coffee[S] 6 insightful - 4 fun6 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 4 fun -  (2 children)

You haven't responded to my question yet. Why should I be welcome in women's spaces when I sometimes stare at other women sexually in those spaces and can't help it, especially since I'm socially awkward? And don't care about what people consider "socially appropriate", since it varies from culture to culture and I'm so done with people telling me what to do and not to do just because they feel uncomfortable? Should you create a separate space called "for that inappropriate woman named tea only" just like we do for men? And if not, why not?

[–]Penultimate_Penance 18 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 0 fun19 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If you have a female body you are welcome in all female only spaces. If you disobey basic rules of human decency and behavior, you may be summarily kicked out of those spaces for being an asshole. The difference between a woman leering and a man leering is strength and a huge difference in violent & sexual crime rates between women and men. Women aren't even in the same ball park when it comes to violence. It's sor rare that I don't even worry about violence or sexual harassment at all when dealing with women. If a woman (extremely unlikely but bear with me) sexually harassed me or attacked me I wouldn't be afraid to fight back. I wouldn't be afraid to tell her she's being a creep and to knock it off.

If a man did that I know he could easily overpower me and do much worse. I also know that society doesn't have my back, so I just get the fuck away from him as quickly as possible and hope I never run into that predatory piece of shit ever again. (I've got a lot of righteous anger built up after a life time of dealing with sexually predatory men). The strong prey on the weak. That's why we have protective spaces for the female bodied people. Women are literally not strong enough to physically defend ourselves from the average man.

That's why I have no issues with lesbians or bisexual women in women's spaces. Every woman I have interacted with in my entire life has respected my boundaries. Men on the other hand... Whoo boy you couldn't pay me to go into a unisex locker room. I'm bisexual myself, but please as a matter of basic human decency never ever under any circumstance stare or god forbid leer at people especially strangers. It is extremely rude at best and really threatening at worst. Social awkwardness is not an acceptable excuse. You're an adult. Control yourself.

[–]MarkTwainiac 9 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

You haven't responded to my question yet. Why should I be welcome in women's spaces when I sometimes stare at other women sexually in those spaces and can't help it, especially since I'm socially awkward? And don't care about what people consider "socially appropriate", since it varies from culture to culture and I'm so done with people telling me what to do and not to do just because they feel uncomfortable? Should you create a separate space called "for that inappropriate woman named tea only" just like we do for men? And if not, why not?

I didn't answer your question because it's one of the myriad goady questions you've asked on this sub going back many months. And coz when you get answers, your usual pattern is to ignore the bulk of responses completely and just restate your question in another way. And also coz many of the views you've expressed on other threads and this one I find odious. Such as your saying here that when you use women's spaces, you're gonna go ahead and continue to "stare at other women sexually in those spaces" coz you "can't help it" and you're "so done with people telling me what to do and not to do just because they feel uncomfortable" besides. The fact that you don't respect other women's boundaries, or even believe other women have have a right to any boundaries in your presence, couldn't have been made clearer.