All: Are there aspects of self-concept or identity that are unchangeable?

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[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 11 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

In some ways, yeah. It was very similar discussion. Lots of focus on finding and validating their identity, huge distress if the validation wasn’t found, and a fear likenive never seen of losing some part of themselves if it couldn’t be confirmed by others.

Something happened to them during the formative years, abuse or neglect or exposure to drugs and violence. They didn’t get the chance to learn themselves. They learned which masks appeased abusers, or scared off others, or got their needs met instead of developing according to the things they valued or cared about.

I don’t want to suggest that all transgender people have personality disorders. The people I worked with were really unwell, had survived some absolute horrors, and did not get the chances others get when it comes to healthy development. In my observations transgender people seem not to have such a pronounced splitting between their body and their concept of self. They appear to be aware of their bodies and very distressed, but not the sort of disconnect where you have to remind someone of their physical self being them, not an object they have.

I do think that some of that feeling of chronic emptiness and instability of self image is shared between the two groups of people however. Something essential feels missing and without extensive therapy it’s not something easy to name. Imo a lot of people fill that missing feeling with gender.

Much like some anorexics will obfuscate their issues by telling themselves it will be okay at some impossible weight and become lost in seeking the magic number. People may feel this chronic emptiness and, with no access to therapy and a culture chock full of gendered ideas, they seek their own physical transformation to cure psychological pain.

Of course this is all layman hypothesising and may very well be absolute nonsense.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Of course this is all layman hypothesising and may very well be absolute nonsense.

I wouldn't discount your firsthand experience, though, I think you'd be more informed than most people, and being an outside observer to it all merits serious consideration for what you're sharing.

This is really, really interesting. I've often wondered how much identity issues in personality disorders such as BPD mirror those of gender dysphoria. What you said here echoes my suspicions:

I do think that some of that feeling of chronic emptiness and instability of self image is shared between the two groups of people however. Something essential feels missing and without extensive therapy it’s not something easy to name. Imo a lot of people fill that missing feeling with gender.

I don't have experience working in any such setting or being around people with personality disorders that I was aware of, but I've often sensed this in trans people I've met, though even now I don't know how to explain the feeling. Like, for some there is an air of being fulfilled, others seem hollow still. But I suppose there are trans people who do have personality disorders, too, and maybe some of the identity issues overlap.

People may feel this chronic emptiness and, with no access to therapy and a culture chock full of gendered ideas, they seek their own physical transformation to cure psychological pain.

This worries me a lot. I wonder if a lot of these people de-transition... it seems like I've seen something like this mentioned in more than one de-transitioners' videos and writings.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Honestly personality disorders are so common I’d guarantee there are transgender people with bpd. I just don’t want to put too much stock into my own obs when I know I’m nowhere near educated enough to get into the nitty gritty of disordered psychology/psychiatry.

Still, very very interesting that you’ve observed a similar phenomenon in the transgender community. Wonder if it will ever be explored academically?

The detransitioner point is actually really interesting and would probably do well to be explored. It’s not a huge reach to imagine some may have tried to fill some void with gender via transition, especially when some detransitioned people have said as much about their own experience.

It’s really quite depressing to think that personality disorders may be being so wildly mistreated via quick transition when they could benefit so much from DBT and CBT.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I feel like I've seen some papers (well, abstracts) on the subject. I think it was brought up in one of the threads in the sub, though maybe not in the same way (I think we were talking about conditions being passed on from mothers/parents).

It seems like smarter people than I always beat me to looking into things, so I bet that will be something to be explored academically if it hasn't already, though maybe not until TRAs get a little less militant in trying to stop research into transgenderism, transsexualism and gender dysphoria.

I'd really like to have some long conversations with de-transitioners about this (and about other things), they really seem to offer a lot of insight into these sorts of things. It really is sad to know it probably has been the case for some to undergo something so drastic and dramatic like transitioning, when it likely would just cause more pain.