QT: questions about transphobia (But gc feel free to add questions)

submitted by loveSloaneDebate King from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

  1. What men’s issues affect transmen? And if they are specifically men’s issues, not female issues, but issues that a transman may encounter because she chooses to put herself in male specific settings, what does that have to do with females or feminism? We advocate for transmen to have female rights (as we do for any female), anything beyond that is a trans specific issue.

  2. She’s not dealing with male/men’s issues. She’s dealing with being black. Her presenting and presumably passing as a black male is why she’s experiencing those specific issues. This is not a trans, nor a feminist issue. It’s a race issue. An important one, to be clear, but that’s why we have both the BLM (and other advocacy groups for poc, and specifically black people) and the concept of being an ally. So feminists can and often do stand up for other marginalized groups (in this case, black people).

  3. Women can abuse men. Women can also abuse transmen. Women can also abuse children, each other etc. She should have gotten help just as anyone who is abused should be able to get help. The actions of whoever dismissed her are not the fault of gc people so I’m not sure what your point is.

  4. It’s a fact that males are disproportionately more likely to be abusive. That doesn’t mean that females can’t ever be abusive themselves. I’m really not sure what your point is.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

  1. One example is being seen as a threat when people wouldn't perceive you as a threat if you were a woman. Here is an article titled “Cultural sexism in the world is very real when you’ve lived on both sides of the coin”.

“I have to be very careful to not be staring at kids,” says Gardner. “I can look at a mom and her baby, but I can’t look for too long. I miss being seen as not a threat.” Ditto for kids on the playground and puppies, multiple guys said.

And to a man, everyone said they’d experienced a moment when they were walking at night behind a woman, and suddenly realized that she was walking faster or clutching her purse because she was scared.

“If I start to get too close, I can feel her fear, I can feel that she’s getting upset,” says Milan. “And it’s really just an indication of how dangerous this world is for women.”

As a trans man of color, Milan says he feels that the world perceives him as a menace, and his interactions with police officers have gotten much more fraught. “I’ve had people make assumptions that I was dangerous or I was a criminal. I’ve been followed around stores. I’ve seen white women who look physically scared, visibly shaken if there’s just the two of us in a elevator,” he says. “You can’t even ask a cop for directions as a black man.”

He says that before he transitioned he was catcalled on the street, but he didn’t feel like people assumed he was a criminal. “When I walk down the street no one knows that I’m a trans black man, people just see me as a black man,” he says. “So when we’re looking at all of this horrible police violence, it’s scary.”

Trans men may experience issues related to female biology. But feminism doesn't just protest issues relating to biology. Pregnancy is related to biology, so fighting against pregnancy discrimination would fall under that. Sexual harassment is not related to biology, but we still fight against it.

  1. Yes it is a black issue. My dad is white and when he got pulled over for not properly changing a lane (I was in the back seat) the police never asked him if he had any weapons or if he was on probation. He even told the officers he didn't think he did anything wrong, and they let him go with a warning. After the incident I told him if he was black he wouldn't be able to do that. I also know black women also experience police brutality, like Rekia Boyd, Sandra Bland and Breonna Taylor.

However, this man said as a woman he didn't get pulled over as often as police as he does now. For the 1st 2 weeks of his transition, he pulled over more times than he did in his 20 years of driving. Now the 1st thing they ask if he has weapons and if he's on parole and probation. Why does he get treated this way now and not before? His race didn't change. His gender presentation did. This is where intersectionality comes in. Being both black and male intersect.

The second example may or may not involve race. Yes it's possible they laughed at him because they think black men are supposed to be big and strong and scary. But, a lot of people also believe women don't abuse men. Would he have got the same treatment if he were white? Maybe or maybe not.

  1. That's excellent that you believe women can abuse men. However, many gender criticals do not. I don't know if the person who created the Duluth model is gender critical, but many don't challenge it, which is surprising because many GCs are lesbians and the Duluth model only talks about straight cis men abusing straight cis women. I have numerous examples on how they talk about male victims. This article says women tend to overestimate their use of violence while men tend to underestimate their use of violence.

This thing about male victims – Feminist Current

This article by the National Organization for Men Against Sexism (NOMAS) says women abusing men is extremely rare.

Are there instances in which men are physically dominated and assaulted by their female partners? This does occur, often when a man has become weakened by a factor such as illness, injury, or old age. Even in these circumstances abuse by a woman is unusual and when it does occur, it is most often motivated by self defense, fighting back and other protections. Even in these instances, the language “battered husbands” is not useful especially in light of the thousands and even millions of women known to have suffered or been murdered at the hands of a male abuser.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

  1. Pregnancy is a female issue. So it’s still about the transman being female, not trans.

  2. The woman in question is still getting pulled over because she appears to be a black male. It’s not her male appearance, it’s her race. It’s honestly insulting that you don’t understand the distinction. If she were white, she’d not be getting pulled over. The issue is her race, more so than her apparent sex. I’m not going to keep saying this so if you don’t get it after this, we’re done with this conversation.

  3. Regardless of race or sex, or anything that divides people, people seeking help from an abusive situation should be able to get help. Period. You keep acting like this is a gc thing, I’m gc, and I don’t think that. So you don’t get to just pick and choose which people you want to pretend speak for the whole of gc.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

  1. Yes only people AFAB can get pregnant. But feminism fights against all kinds of gender discrimination, not just something that is based o biology or female specific. We fight to end gender roles. We fight for equal pay. We fight for having access to all professions, regardless of gender. We fight sex-shaming.

  2. I understand the distinction. I'm saying it's race and gender combined. He says (not me, he) that in his 1st 2 weeks of passing as a black male, he got pulled over more times then he did in his 20 years of driving as a black female.

  3. The majority of GCs think that. I've linked to a few posts proving that and can link to more.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

  1. What does any of this have to do with the transman you’re talking about? What’s your point, in listing some of the things that feminists fight for? It’s like you can’t admit that what I’m saying is right so you just start saying random shit

  2. I literally said that the issue is that she appears to be a black male. The issue, once again, is the BLACK part, if she were a white transman she would not get pulled over. What do you not understand? If you tell me, I can speak to you like a child so you get it. I understand that the cops pulling her over think she’s a male, but they aren’t pulling her over just because they think she’s a male. It is because she’s black. What does this have to do with female rights or feminism? Even if it was just because they think she’s male ans her race has no relevance, what would it have to do with feminism?

  3. Unless you can link some type of statistic or poll you cannot prove this. This is a false claim. I’m sure you can cherry pick other comments to bolster your claims. But if that’s what we’re doing we may as well say that the majority of transwomen want to rape, torture and murder any and everyone who disagrees with them, and that they hold a deep seated hatred for females in general. I can link a few posts proving that if you’d like. Since apparently comments and posts from some people in any given group is proof that the majority feels that way. While we’re at it, the majority of trans people advocate rape by deception and pressuring non trans people into sexual activities that they aren’t open to. I can link a few posts proving that, too. Is that how this works?