QT: Who is trans “inclusive” language really for?

submitted by BiologyIsReal from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]MarkTwainiac 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

What is attempted, is to stop going by biological sex and instead go by gender identity where biological sex shouldn't matter (e.g. outside the bedroom or medical care).

Anyone who thinks biological sex only matters in the bedroom or medical care is very naive. And probably a male person who is young, doesn't have children, has never played or coached sports, hasn't worked alongside women in jobs where physical strength matters, hasn't had any longterm intimate relationships with female persons, has no idea that safety equipment isn't designed with female bodies in mind, has never navigated the world when visibly pregnant or as the mother of a young child, and has never spoken to female people with considerable life experience about the realities of our lives.

Just today, I had to deal with some longterm financial planning matters and inquired about putting one of my sons on my auto insurance. Actuaries will attest that sex matters when figuring out how much money you'll need in retirement, and insurance companies will tell you that adding a young male driver to the family policy will cause a considerable hike in premiums.

I have no idea what you are talking about.

Spelling, punctuation and grammar rules are commonly accepted norms that most people follow so that what we say and write can be most easily understood by others. For example, using capital letters at the start of sentences (and paragraphs), using punctuation marks to clearly denote when sentences have ended, and using spaces or separate lines when giving links and urls - especially long ones that are more than one line - rather than just smushing them in the middle of sentences.

[–]Taln_Reich 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

has never played or coached sports, hasn't worked alongside women in jobs where physical strength matters

physical strength does play a role in certain areas. Thing is, muscle builup is controlled by hormone levels, so a transgender person that has been on HRT for a significant time might be better grouped by gender identity here.

And probably a male person who is young, doesn't have children,

hasn't had any longterm intimate relationships with female persons

please elaborate.

has no idea that safety equipment isn't designed with female bodies in mind

safety equipment ought to be designed to consider either body type.

has never navigated the world when visibly pregnant

or thought to be pregnant.

or as the mother of a young child, and has never spoken to female people with considerable life experience about the realities of our lives.

and you think people who appear female in these situation and are transgender are not experiencing this?

Just today, I had to deal with some longterm financial planning matters and inquired about putting one of my sons on my auto insurance. Actuaries will attest that sex matters when figuring out how much money you'll need in retirement, and insurance companies will tell you that adding a young male driver to the family policy will cause a considerable hike in premiums.

this is more likely conncted to gendered socialisation rather than whether the person in question has testes and ovaries. Also, insurance companies are already facing the fact that this will now go by gender identity.

Spelling, punctuation and grammar rules are commonly accepted norms that most people follow so that what we say and write can be most easily understood by others. For example, using capital letters at the start of sentences (and paragraphs), using punctuation marks to clearly denote when sentences have ended

english is not my native language and as far as I can see, I ended all sentences with punctuation marks (though there might be some "," misplaced or missing). As for capital letters at the start, that should not make what I write more difficult to understand.

and using spaces or separate lines when giving links and urls - especially long ones that are more than one line - rather than just smushing them in the middle of sentences.

I place links and URL's were I want, especially when making a point.

[–]MarkTwainiac 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

you think people who who appear female in these situation and are transgender are not experiencing this?

Once again, in the minds of "gender identity" believers everything is reduced to how people appear. Nothing else matters except how one looks.

FFS, being female is not simply about appearance! Women inhabit our female bodies and feel things within and because of our female bodies. Being female is not a spectator sport! If everyone on earth world lost the power of sight, smell, taste and touch tomorrow, we female people would still be female and inhabit female bodies. And males would still be 100% male, even the ones who wished to be women and claimed to be trans.

As a woman, I feel I have more in common with males who know they are males than with males who claim to be female and are focused on trying to approximate appearing female coz the "regular" males are more likely to be grounded in reality as I am.

To answer your question directly: I believe males who alter their looks so they "appear female" have absolutely no effing idea what it's like to experience life in a female body as female people do. There is very little connection between what males who identify as trans and try to come off as women experience coz of their altered appearance as they go through life and what actual female people experience coz of inhabiting bona fide female bodies.

During COVID, many women who live alone, particularly older women, haven't seen anyone or been seen by anyone in a year. This has not diminished our being female one iota. Nor has it had any impact on our experience of our female sexed bodies.

I don't understand what you mean by your reference to someone who is "thought to be pregnant"? Thought to be pregnant by whom? How can a male think he is pregnant? What would it mean and matter if someone else were to think a male who "appears like" a woman might be pregnant? A male thinking he is pregnant, or someone else thinking he is pregnant, would not make him pregnant, nor make it possible for him ever to be pregnant. There is no connection between the hypothetical you have raised and the lived reality of being a pregnant woman.

Pregnancy is something that happens inside a female body. It's not affected either way by vision - whether the woman's own or anyone else's.

When I spoke of navigating the world when pregnant, I didn't mean being viewed by others as pregnant - I meant dealing with the physical realities such as having always to find a restroom coz of the constant need to pee, feeling an exhaustion in the early months that is like no other, being nauseous 24/7 for months at a time, having always to make the sensory adjustments required to maintain balance in an unwieldy body that is and feels so markedly different and is so much larger to how it's felt and been the rest of your life, having always to be hyper-aware and vigilant coz of the need to protect the fetus from harm, having a hard time fitting into a seat in a diner or behind the wheel of a car, having your water break in public... and so on.

But all this seems beyond your understanding coz you see being female as something that is all about - and only about - appearance.

[–]MarkTwainiac 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

When I said

Just today, I had to deal with some longterm financial planning matters and inquired about putting one of my sons on my auto insurance. Actuaries will attest that sex matters when figuring out how much money you'll need in retirement, and insurance companies will tell you that adding a young male driver to the family policy will cause a considerable hike in premiums.

You said:

this is more likely conncted to gendered socialisation rather than whether the person in question has testes and ovaries. Also, insurance companies are already facing the fact that this will now go by gender identity.

You really think the fact that in nearly all human societies - particularly those where most people have a decent enough standard of living to have access to sufficient food, clean water, shelter and basic medical care - female humans have longer life expectancy than males by a number of years is down to "gendered socialization"? The fact that males are 3 times more likely to die of COVID-19 than females is all due to gendered socialization? The different diseases that men and women in mid-life and old age tend to develop, and the different trajectories the same diseases take in members of the two sexes, are all the result of gendered socialization?

Please contact the press, then. Most scientists believe the sex differences in lifespans, in the risk of losing one's life to COVID, in the different diseases males and females develop, and the different trajectories of the same disease in the two sexes, are largely due to differences in genetics and especially due to the extra immune benefits women have due to having a second X chromosome (immune function is determined by genes on X chromosomes). Yes, some socialization does factor in, particularly when we look at lifespans starting from birth - male babies are much more likely to die before age one, for example, and between 14 and 25, males have a much higher risk than females of dying due to homicide. But take two persons, one male and one female, who make it to age 65 with similar health profiles, lifestyles, habits and such, and the woman still will likely outlive the man by 5-6 years in most countries.

If you can show that all these differences are mainly due to "gendered socialization," you deserve a Nobel Prize in Medicine.

As for the different insurance rates between young females and males, you think this is all down to "gendered socialization" too? That's funny, coz those who espouse the theory that "gender identity" is paramount usually tend to place a very high value on sex hormones, arguing that most sex differences are the result of the different hormone profiles of the two sexes and that by altering sex hormones each one of us can acquire the characteristics of the opposite sex. The insurance industry places a lot of emphasis on hormones too. A commonly-held view in the insurance industry is that a large part of the reason why male drivers under age 25 are much more likely to have auto accidents and fatalities is coz of the impact of pubertal/early adult male testosterone levels on brains that are still developing. The T in teenage boys' and young men's bodies makes them more aggressive and risk-taking whilst the lack of pre-frontal brain development they have until their mid-20s makes it especially difficult for young male drivers to assess risks and anticipate the consequences of their actions. Once their brains finish developing at at age 25 or so, they become much safer drivers.

BTW, the reasons the auto insurance industry is open to evening out the insurance rates charged to males and females after age 25 are a little more complicated that trans activists seem to think. The insurance industry only appears to be appeasing trans activists.