GC: Why aren't trans men allowed to have their own spaces?

submitted by GenderbenderShe/her/hers from self.GCdebatesQT

sorted by:
top
newinsightfulfun
you are viewing a single comment's thread.

view the rest of the comments →

[–]strictly 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Most of us don't define ourselves by our biology.

I don’t define myself by my biology either but I know I have one. Being an adult human female is just a fact, nothing else.

This was about trans men being allowed to show their nipple

The nipples of female trans people are not targeted more than the nipples of other female people so there is no need for a conversation just about about the nipples of female trans people when all female people have the same problem. TikTok is not a trans exclusive space either.

Some men experience periods.

Anyone experiencing a period is by definition not a man so no.

a trans man wrote an article about how getting his period made him feel like less of a man. I don't know any (cis) women who say getting their period makes them feel like less of a man.

Periods not inducing manly feelings is pretty common overall and not limited to trans people. Women rather wanting to be men is not that unusual either.

I always dreaded my period, but I was never devastated and distraught over this.

Periods are physically a nuisance but it’s not the reason I hate it, my first period was traumatic as it made me aware of having a female reproductive system and I hated knowing that. It seems you think a trans person’s emotional experience is always entirely different from a the experience of a non-trans person. If that was true I would believe female trans people never dislike being female, as I dislike being female and female trans people supposedly always feel entirely different, aka, they must in contrary like being their biological sex lot.

My problem is GCs constantly complain about trans women talking over trans men but talk over trans men themselves.

Aren’t you doing the same thing then? You complain about GCs talking over female trans people despite you not being a female trans person yourself. So either it’s okay to complain about how other groups treat female trans people despite not being a female trans person (including GC) or it’s not okay for anyone (including you).

r/FTM made a thread about how happy they were that the sub was banned

I bet male trans people did a thread celebrating the ban too.

From my research of that sub alone, there are more threads complaining about GCs than threads complaining about trans women.

You seem to think I would find that surprising. I am not GC because I think female trans people support GC, I don't really care if they support GC or not. I'm GC because I am critical of gender. I am GC because I don't think sex can be changed and it goes against my moral principles to lie about trans people being the opposite sex.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

I don’t define myself by my biology either but I know I have one. Being an adult human female is just a fact, nothing else.

Many of us have gender identities beyond our biology. I was born female, but even if I wasn't, I would still identify as a woman. Even now I identify as a woman based on my gender identity, not my biology.

The nipples of female trans people are not targeted more than the nipples of other female people so there is no need for a conversation just about about the nipples of female trans people when all female people have the same problem. TikTok is not a trans exclusive space either.

Those men were speaking for themselves as trans men, not as females. GCs always talk about the need for female only spaces, so I don't understand why they don't understand that trans men also need their own spaces.

Anyone experiencing a period is by definition not a man so no.

Not true. Women, men and enbies get periods.

Periods not inducing manly feelings is pretty common overall and not limited to trans people. Women rather wanting to be men is not that unusual either.

Trans men are men, and they have male gender identities. Of course it's distressing to them when they feel like less of men. But to be clear, everyone's trans experience is different and periods don't do induce these feelings for all trans men. Also, I never wanted to be a man.

Periods are physically a nuisance but it’s not the reason I hate it, my first period was traumatic as it made me aware of having a female reproductive system and I hated knowing that.

So it's wrong of me to hate my period?

It seems you think a trans person’s emotional experience is always entirely different from a the experience of a non-trans person.

Not always though. But a trans persons experience is a trans person's experience. A cis person's experience is a cis person's experience.

Aren’t you doing the same thing then? You complain about GCs talking over female trans people despite you not being a female trans person yourself. So either it’s okay to complain about how other groups treat female trans people despite not being a female trans person (including GC) or it’s not okay for anyone (including you).

I read articles by trans men, subs for trans men, watch video's by trans men about being trans, etc. At least when I listen to trans men's words, I work on myself on being a better ally. When GCs read trans men's words, they instantly call trans men selfish and narcissistic. Just here and here, they complain when celebrities come out as trans. GCs don't have any intention of becoming allies to trans men, yet complain when trans women aren't the perfect allies.

I bet male trans people did a thread celebrating the ban too.

Sure, but the point is GCs act like they are supportive of trans men but actual trans men say they aren't.

You seem to think I would find that surprising. I am not GC because I think female trans people support GC, I don't really care if they support GC or not. I'm GC because I am critical of gender. I am GC because I don't think sex can be changed and it goes against my moral principles to lie about trans people being the opposite sex.

OK, but I believe GCs need to stop complaining about how trans women mistreat trans men. On r/FTM, trans men themselves made numerous posts complaining about gender critical, and there are very few posts complaining about trans women. I might as well do a poll asking r/FTM if they would choose GC or the trans community to be their allies. I will bet all of my life savings most (if not all) will pick the trans community.

[–]strictly 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Even now I identify as a woman based on my gender identity, not my biology.

If you are referring to gender identity, not biology, with the letter combination “woman” then there are many adult human females who aren't women in your usage of that letter combination, including me.

Those men were speaking for themselves as trans men, not as females.

They can’t speak as men as they aren’t men. Their nipples are targeted due to their femaleness, not their transness, and that makes it a female issue, not a trans issue.

GCs always talk about the need for female only spaces, so I don't understand why they don't understand that trans men also need their own spaces.

GC hasn’t lobbied for female trans subreddits getting banned so GC isn’t stopping these female people from having their own spaces. We just don’t pretend they are men so we are not going to pretend their female issues are manly issues.

Women, men and enbies get periods.

You are talking about human females so these are all women or girls.

So it's wrong of me to hate my period?

No.

Not always though. But a trans persons experience is a trans person's experience. A cis person's experience is a cis person's experience.

I guess genderists have unique experiences regarding experiencing gender identities so I’m not going to tell you what it is like for you to have a woman gender identity as I have no clue. I would never claim my experience is the same as male trans people who want to be women as wanting to be a woman is unrelatable to me. Dysphoria isn’t a trans exclusive experience though and I can relate to female people who dislike being female as I am a female person who dislikes being female.

I read articles by trans men, subs for trans men, watch video's by trans men about being trans, etc. At least when I listen to trans men's words, I work on myself on being a better ally.

I have talked to many trans people and listened to them but I have never cared to be an ally to the movement as I consider it non-scientific, sexist and homophobic.

GCs act like they are supportive of trans men

I don't act like I am supportive of validating the gender feelings of female trans people. I support their right to get abortions etc but I think they care more about me not pretending they are men so I’m not under the illusion that my views would be popular among female trans people.

I believe GCs need to stop complaining about how trans women mistreat trans men.

I have never complained about it but I also don’t see why it would be wrong for a person to use their observational skills. Either something is true or it isn’t, and if something is true then it’s true regardless if GC is popular among female trans people or not.

I will bet all of my life savings most (if not all) will pick the trans community.

Of course, and I would make the same bet as you. You talk a lot about GC supposedly being under the impression that female trans people would consider GC their number one ally (lol). I not going to say stupid people don’t exist but I am not a person who believes female trans people see GC as their ally. If you want to rectify people who believe that then you speaking to the wrong person.