Both: Disclosure around adoption

submitted by peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Thank you for sharing your thoughts! I’m going to try to respond to all your replies together if I can. Sorry I’m so slow to respond. It’s just been a busy week...

At what age do you think a child will be "old enough to understand"?

I feel like you’d be able to at least introduce it at age 3. It’s a confusing subject so I think I’ll be answering a lot of questions then and in the future as the child learns more about what sex or gender means. We also feel like it’s super important to introduce early ideas that families can come in all shapes and size and are made different ways so nothing about the make-up of our family is scary.

Are these legal relationships involving just you and those people directly, or do they involve the minor children of those people too? Are these relationships governed by contracts which you and the other persons signed and were filed with, and had to be approved by, state authorities and finally approved by a judge? Are these relationships subject to state laws, rules and regulations the way adoptions are?

These are reasonable points. I guess I was more referring to comfort around knowing people without having that out there. Most of my relationships are like that so it’s something I’m comfortable with.

Nor, of course, until now no lawmakers - nor anyone else - has anticipated that in such a scenario, the two males might decide between themselves - and with the collusion of a social worker - that the best tack is to try to hoodwink a pregnant girl/woman into believing that they are a heterosexual M-F couple rather than a homosexual M-M one coz they think doing so will increase their chances of being selected by the woman as the adoptive parents for her child.

This is an interest idea, but I would hope it isn’t something that is actually happening. It seems like there would be much easier ways for a gay couple to adopt. The amount of effort they’d have to go through, assuming it were even possible, doesn’t seem worthwhile. I live in a major city and I know there are many agencies that cater specifically to same-sex couples looking to adopt.

What's more, consent requires being fully informed of all the relevant facts. It's not just "bad faith" for adoptive parents and biological parents alike to lie by omission in a legal adoption, it's fraud. What's more, the fraud on the part of the adoptive parents against biological parents in this scenario would be fraud undertaken for the specific purpose of obtaining somebody else's baby. That's not a "good look." It won't play well in the courts, or in the press.

Thanks for bringing up the legal stuff! I hadn’t really put much thought into it. Obviously, we’re not trying to deceive anyone. Maybe you feel like being a transsexual is a deception. I guess I don’t really know how to respond to that. We wanted to start a family (like many people and couples do) and I’m very much sterile (and we’re technically the same sex) so we feel like we’ve figured out the best way to do that. I have issues with surrogacy because I worry about consent and problematic things so this just feel like a better option. Plus, we get to provide a loving home for a child.

I don’t know if legally it would be fraudulent though. As much as GC isn’t comfortable with it, legal sex change is something that exists. I’m just not sure what basis there would be to say there had been fraud. I’m not an attorney though. We will be consulting with an attorney during this process, we just aren’t to that point yet.

Also, for an adoption to be finalized, the state and the judge who finalizes it receives a copy of our Home Study. My childhood is described in the Home Study, so if someone read it they would realize how I was born. I don’t know what that counts for, but I am trying to be transparent.

Also, many people are of the opinion, and with good reason, that even when what's going on between the two partners in a couple or marriage falls short of meeting the clinical criteria for a folie à deux, it's really not healthy for children to grow up in a household were the parents have made a pact to put on an act, or for one to enable the other's illusions and pretenses.

I’m sorry that you see it this way. Can trans people not be mentally healthy in your mind? There are certainly many examples of ones who aren’t, but I can’t imagine I’m the only one just quietly living my life.

[–]MarkTwainiac 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

OP, the views I'm presenting are not necessarily my own. I'm just trying to give you an idea of some of the views and concerns that a pregnant girl or woman planning to give her child up for adoption - as well as others - might have.

I’m sorry that you see it this way. Can trans people not be mentally healthy in your mind?

I think everyone of us has psychological issues - not just trans people! As an sub oldster (mid 60s) who has studied mental health matters most of my life, I am of the view that pretty much none of us gets through the course of our entire lives without going through bouts of very poor mental health or clear-cut mental illness.

Many people who seemed mentally healthy, psychologically strong and resilient in the earlier phases of their life end up having breakdowns, clinical depression, paralyzing anxiety, and all sorts of related problems later in life. Coz the vagaries, heartaches, tragedies, losses and slings and arrows of life tend to knock each one of us around in ways we never imagined when we were younger - and there's only so much most of us can take without cracking in some way. There's no shame in this. It comes with the territory of being human.

This thread has prompted me to do a lot of thinking, but I'm not gonna share all the other thoughts I have coz they seem beside the point to what you asked originally. You clearly said the issue is "Disclosure around adoption" - whether you should reveal your sex to any pregnant girl/woman considering you and your husband as potential adoptive parents for her child. I've weighed in said yes, in my opinion it's essential for you to put all your cards on the table and be honest for a variety of reasons. One of those being to protect yourself and your partner from legal trouble and a heap of pain.

If you start another thread describing the very specific circumstances that you and your husband are in - two male homosexuals where one is "transsexual" - and ask whether others think such a couple are good candidates to adopt/parent, I'll weigh in. Not just to give my own personal perspective, but to fill you in on some of the concerns I believe other people - especially women - might have. And I'll not do so with the intent of raining on your parade, so to speak, but coz I want you to be forewarned, and thus prepared.

If you do make a separate thread, please think twice before generalizing it to "Should Trans People Adopt?" or something like that. Coz the situation you are in is very specific: natal male transsexual HSTS married to another homosexual male. The prospect of adoption and child-rearing by other kinds of trans people - natal female homosexuals, natal female heterosexuals, natal female bisexuals, mature male heterosexual AGPs, the new breed of young male incels going trans of various sexual orientations - will raise different issues/concerns.

In the meantime, my very best wishes. Human being to human being, I hope you enjoy a life of happiness and continued good health, mental and physical.

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thank you for the thoughtful reply!

I think everyone of us has psychological issues - not just trans people! As an sub oldster (mid 60s) who has studied mental health matters most of my life, I am of the view that pretty much none of us gets through the course of our entire lives without going through bouts of very poor mental health or clear-cut mental illness.

This is so true! I don’t mean to say I’ve never struggled with any issues. I mean, I’m a transsexual, it would be silly for someone like me to pretend I never did. I guess I’m just sensitive to it being like we’re all delusional or living delusional lives just because we are trans. It’s also unfair to my husband.

I really appreciate your comments in the thread! You’ve made me think about this ways I hadn’t before even if I may not see everything exactly the same. You’ve put a lot of thought into and just have a lot of knowledge generally. I don’t know if I will make another thread because I feel like this space isn’t really for feedback on my life personally (which I sort of let happen anyway). That’s why I did the question how I did so maybe it could apply to other people too. Our situation is one particular type of relationship and type of trans person and maybe it’s better to focus just on that. If you do want to share any thought that are outside the question though like feel free to DM or I think it would be fine to put them here.

Thank you again for your thoughts and best wishes to you as well! 😊