QT/Trans: what do you want from others?

submitted by loveSloaneDebate King from self.GCdebatesQT

I don’t know how to word this well, so bare with me. I’m wondering what exactly it is that trans people and their allies want from the rest of society. I don’t mean what do you want from GC, I mean, just day to day, politically, and maybe with your personal relationships, what is it that you expect or hope for?

I know that’s broad and the answers could vary, but when we keep seeing the stuff about not dating trans people being bigotry (I know you don’t all say this) or even the TWAW/TMAM stuff, it seems like many trans people want to be able to just be considered entirely as if they were the opposite sex/gender, and that seems to be unrealistic and a bit unreasonable imo.

I understand wanting safety, to be able to get and keep employment, and wanting your family and friends to accept you, but it feels like there’s more and I just figured I’d ask instead of assuming or filling things in for myself. If this doesn’t make sense please ask for clarification lol. This is for any trans person and any ally to answer.

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[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

I figured maybe there could be a thread for GC, but not to speculate about what we think they want, rather what we’d want.

For me, all I want is for women/females to be left out of the whole equation. I’d support any and all rights for trans people (eta for clarity- I support trans rights, I don’t support what I consider privileges that are being called rights) would even consider supporting having taxes pay for transitioning needs (for adults) at this point, if in exchange we got our spaces and language to ourselves. I’d love it if instead of pushing the TWAW/TMAM narrative, we destigmatized being trans . Meaning, instead of trans people pushing to be included in specific boxes (calling a heterosexual male a lesbian or a straight female gay, stuff like that) we take away the “value” of being labeled gay or straight. I think it’s better to acknowledge for example, that a male dating another male is technically a homosexual relationship- and instead of insisting that they are a heterosexual couple, we acknowledge and accept that there’s nothing wrong or even worth making an issue out of the technicality, if that makes sense. I know someone will say that puts them in danger- but I kind of think that the way things are going now actually opens the door for more danger and more conflict. Basically, I wish we could promote the idea of accepting being trans, while acknowledging that they aren’t the same as the sex/gender they say they identify with. Mostly, I wish women’s voices weren’t silenced, women’s issues weren’t suppressed, and everyone who isn’t trans is heard when it comes to certain subjects.

It’s not really my business, but I’d also like for there to be a real effort to find alternative treatments. I don’t know that I believe that transitioning is what is best for everyone. It seems to rely a lot on what someone already looked like pre transition, and or how much money someone has for things like ffs. I also worry about the consequences of prolonged cross sex hormones.

[–]ColoredTwiceIntersex female, medical malpractice victim, lesbian 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

About last paragraph. Transition is mostly studied on male body and reccomendations there are ones for transwomen. And they are all applied to transmen, while they are not suitable for transmen and transmen aren't "on clock". The later transwoman transitions the harder will be for them to pass without cosmetic surgeries. For transmen it does not matter when they transition and puberty should not be blocked either (in any case same surgeries dor breast removal are needed). Testosterone makes irreversible permament changes to female body and it works regardless of age - starting at 15, 20 or 40 - transman will pass same way.

So for females (transmen) - it is not researched field at all and transition with treatment is wrongly given, as it only relies on transwomen experience, so it is harmful in the end for transmen.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Wow. That’s fucked up but I’m not surprised.

[–]ColoredTwiceIntersex female, medical malpractice victim, lesbian 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It has two reasons.

First is - they are females and Pharma always makes tests mainly on males (so women sometimes have health issues from common pills).

Second one - until 5-7 years ago, only 0.5-1%of all transes were transmen, while right now almost half of all transes are transmen, while more than 80% of all surgeries and 60-65% hormonal therapies are done on transmen of all transes.

So even if doctors wanted to study transmen (and seems they don't) - there just not enough data, and not enough statistics and test results to give any conclusions. Yet they are prescribed with maximal forms of treatment, based on 30+ years of study on male transsexuals.

[–]Omina_SentenziosaSarcastic Ovalord 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I want women to be left alone and be recognized as a category that doesn't include anyone who was born with a penis instead of being reduced to "birthing bodies" so that a bunch of males won't feel bad when reminded that biological sex is a thing that exists.

I also want LGB people (but straight people too) to live their sexuality in peace without any rapey creep telling them to "reconsider their genital fetish".

I want children to not be medicalized while having perfectly healthy bodies.

Also, I don't want anyone to be forced to say things they don't want to say. Everyone should be able to speak their mind, and that includes things that I or others might find offensive.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I don’t know that I believe that transitioning is what is best for everyone. It seems to rely a lot on what someone already looked like pre transition, and or how much money someone has for things like ffs.

It’s not really about appearance though. Being ugly or nonpassing post transition doesn’t mean you haven’t improved your dysphoria. And that’s the point. Like I’m substantially uglier and totally but the changes that have happened have unquestionably improved dysphoria. The point isn’t to be “pretty” it’s to remove the traits of your birth sex that bother you.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I guess I just feel like, if you’re saying you don’t want being trans to define your life, I’d think a lot of other trans people feel similarly. If you can’t hope to pass, you will always be stuck being visibly trans. I also think that there’s risk to those procedures and repercussions from long term CSH. I don’t think transition works for everyone, I also think there’s a lot of people transitioning that aren’t dysphoric. I just think there should be alternative treatment. I don’t think transition is a for sure way of helping, and lately I’ve been seeing a lot of stories about people who are saying transitioning made them feel worse. I don’t doubt transitioning helped you, I just think it shouldn’t be the only solution or the go to solution.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

When I was paralyzed with dysphoria being trans was still the thing defining my life, because it was still ruling it. Now I’m just ugly and looked at like a freak, compared to what it was like before in my head that’s a big step up.

I’m not saying they’re shouldn’t be oversight to make sure the person is actually dysphoric or anything but transition is the only thing that treats dysphoria. Therapy to treat other things and make sure someone is actually disphoric isn’t something I object to.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I feel like there’s a few people who frequented the old sub and have popped up here who have dysphoria and haven’t transitioned, there are detransitioners, and many stories of people transitioning and regretting it. There are people who have transitioned themselves and admitted that they don’t think it works for everyone. I don’t doubt that transition helped you. I don’t think it’s accurate to say it’s the only thing that treats it. I think people think it’s the only treatment that works because the treatment exists to begin with, and when you have dysphoria and that option is presented to you, that’s all you’ll consider because it’s literally as close to getting what you want as you can get. I’m not trying to dismiss your experiences. I just think that perpetuating the idea that transitioning is the only way to go is not a good route. There are people who manage their dysphoria without transitioning. But I don’t want to argue with you so I’m fine to just drop it here.

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I don’t really feel like anything needs to change to accommodate me. I just want to be able to continue to exist how I am comfortable. I feel like for me that means being able have my sex be a private matter outside of medical and partners. That’s how it has been for most of my life and it’s been good for me. I really just want to be able to blend in and live a quiet life as I have done.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I do get why trans people want to keep their sex a secret, even if I disagree. I don’t agree with the legal sex change stuff, but I get where you’re coming from generally. I guess I wish that we could get to a point where it doesn’t matter what sex is on someone’s identification. I’d rather trans people have a different marker altogether and or that it be safe and not an issue for it to be factual if that makes sense. I don’t mean to offend you or anything, sorry if that’s rude.

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You didn’t offend me. 😊

FWIW, I feel like I understand why GC people might not be comfortable with parts of this like legal sex change. I feel like maybe we could come together to fight against things like self-ID. That puts females and TW like me in danger in a similar way so I feel like we could ally against that and in support of more gate keeping.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Expect and hope for or different questions

I mostly expect to be left alone. Let me live my life and if you don’t respect my identity just leave me alone. I also expect the same level of civil rights and protections that are granted to other marginalized groups like job protections, housing protection, and protection from medical discrimination. Acceptance is great, tolerance is fine. If you can’t manage that please just leave us alone.

As for hope. I hope to some day be treated in life like any other woman such that the fact that I’m trans is no longer the thing defining my life. I don’t want what I consider a birth defect to be the only thing that matters in my life and right now it is.

Romantically I have abandoned hope and have no expectations.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I agree with your first paragraph, I can’t agree with the second, other than you saying you don’t want being trans to define your whole life. Thank you for answering.