Discuss with just facts?

submitted by loveSloaneDebate King from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

Lmao women are a subset of humans. Men are as well. So TW are a subset of a subset and you still don’t make sense.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (16 children)

Funny the opposite is true from my perspective as you were the one claiming women aren't a subset of everyone:

TW are the subset. Women are not.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 5 insightful - 4 fun5 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 4 fun -  (15 children)

😂😂😂

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

Also what's with the fake laughing. Are you attempting to mock me or something? Because again I thought you wanted to take emotions out of this conversations?

[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

I find your comments amusing and impossible to take seriously. That’s why I’m ending the back and forth. You can’t prove factually that transwomen are women. If you could you would have. You won’t even offer an alternate definition even though you keep rejecting the one most people know. There’s no conversation to be had if you won’t actually offer facts. Philosophy is not fact. TWAW is certainly not a fact. I don’t understand how you stand behind and argument that definitions aren’t fixed, as if you don’t understand that almost every person in the world accepts these definitions and they make perfect sense. It scares me to see how easily you and masks can warp things to try to justify what you want. I have to pull back and I have to laugh because if I don’t I will genuinely start to feel fear. The inability of males who claim to be women to respect women is terrifying to me. If you respected women, you’d leave us and our spaces alone. And if you truly were women, you’d understand why women don’t want to have you forced on us. Just my opinion. I’m too drained to word things better.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

You can’t prove factually that transwomen are women

Of course I can't just like you can't prove that they aren't. Opinions aren't facts

You won’t even offer an alternate definition even though you keep rejecting the one most people know

Yes I have:

"then a woman is someone who instinctually identifies with the group of people who posses a certain range of physical traits (which would include people whom you'd deem male, intersex m/f, or female)"

I don’t understand how you stand behind and argument that definitions aren’t fixed, as if you don’t understand that almost every person in the world accepts these definitions and they make perfect sense.

Because the truth is the truth no matter how many say it isn't?

It scares me to see how easily you and masks can warp things to try to justify what you want.

Like how saying cis women both are and aren't a subset of the people in this conversation. Still not sure what you were getting at saying that.

The inability of males who claim to be women to respect women is terrifying to me

You call it respect, I call it bigotry.

And if you truly were women, you’d understand why women don’t want to have you forced on us.

This is silly and sexist. If all true women supposedly would understand other women not wanting to be around them, then why are 5% of sexually assaults on cis women perpetrated by cis women? Perhaps their just out of tune with the hive mind you seem to presume exists?

[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

Lmao like I said- there’s no point in discussing with you. Words have meaning, and you just want to change those meanings to suit your personal feelings. That’s ridiculous and narcissism at it’s finest. Women and transwomen are not the same and the only thing we have in common is being human. Force yourself on us all you want. We clearly can’t stop you. But you’re never going to convince us all to take you seriously and see you as women and not the pinnacle of misogynistic males. The truth is the truth no matter how many say it isn’t, I agree. Women are female. Males are not women and cannot become female. This is the truth. You can say it’s not as much as you need to to comfort yourself lol. I’m done talking to you. We will get nowhere.

[–]ColoredTwiceIntersex female, medical malpractice victim, lesbian 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Even for medical purposes it is important to have sexed language. Some medical drugs have different effect on male and female body, and transwoman body responds same to them as male (men's) body, and transman body same as female (women's) body.

There were even few cases when very well passing trans persons died to that. And there even news from the side of TRA about such issues. I'll add as answer on this post one, after I find it (editing from phone is a chore).

[–]ColoredTwiceIntersex female, medical malpractice victim, lesbian 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200814-why-our-medical-systems-are-ignoring-transgender-people

Here.

Transman almost died because was passing too good and was written as male in documents, while in reality that transman needed female treatment.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Lmao like I said- there’s no point in discussing with you. Words have meaning, and you just want to change those meanings to suit your personal feelings.

If words have an objective meaning then why do their definitions change over time?

Women and transwomen are not the same and the only thing we have in common is being human.

To me the commonality is that cis women and trans women both think of themselves as women.

But you’re never going to convince us all to take you seriously and see you as women and not the pinnacle of misogynistic males.

I'm satisfied with convincing the vast majority

The truth is the truth no matter how many say it isn’t, I agree.

Wonderful.

Women are female. Males are not women and cannot become female.

Sex is a spectrum, and sex traits can be changed.

You can say it’s not as much as you need to to comfort yourself lol

I honestly believe it, but I'm amenable to a good argument.

I’m done talking to you. We will get nowhere.

Only because you refuse to be open to new ideas, but rather reject them out of hand

[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Like I said, I can’t take you seriously. Tell yourself what you need to lol. You thinking women “think of themselves” as women was enough for me to see that you’re understanding is just not accurate. I am more than open to new ideas. They just have to make sense.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

People whom identify as something, even if they think that thing is a biological fact of their being, think of themselves as that thing. Compare to babies for instance who can be things but can't think of themselves as being anything.