GC: If GC achieves it’s goal around trans issues, what happens to trans people?

submitted by peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]loveSloaneDebate King 10 insightful - 4 fun10 insightful - 3 fun11 insightful - 4 fun -  (11 children)

If you truly expected it to go both ways you wouldn’t be fighting to compel speech and you’d leave women and our spaces alone. You don’t expect it to go both ways. You expect it to go your way. Every comment you’ve made shows this.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

For the thousandth time I’m not in any way pushing for compelled speech. I’m pushing for the right to object to being insulted. I think of a gay guy is called a faggot he should be able to object. If someone is called a racial slur they should be able to object. If a woman is called the c word or a slut they should be able to object. And if I’m called a man I should be able to object.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

“Faggot” is a slur.

“N***er” is a slur.

“Cunt”- not necessarily a slur but an offensive term.

“Man”- not a slur. In any capacity. The word man is not a slur. It means adult male human. Why should you be able to object to being called an adult male human? Particularly when you are an adult male human? How is the word “man” a slur?

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

It’s an insult. I would be less offended being called a faggot than a man frankly.

If a man said slut wasn’t offensive and so you shouldn’t be able to object to being called that in a workplace then called you that based on that defense, what would you do?

Its a heinous insult to call trans women men. It’s a hostile work environment and the idea that we just need to cope or leave basically means we have no recourse for harassment.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

“It’s an insult.”

Me- how is the word “man” an insult?

You- it’s an insult.

Yeah. Thanks for explaining how. Makes so much sense now.

“I would be less offended being called a faggot than a man frankly.”

This still doesn’t explain how it’s an insult. Also- pretty sure the word “faggot” is only used for men, so I find it odd that you’d be less offended by a word that is pretty much calling you a gay man...

“If a man said slut wasn’t offensive and so you shouldn’t be able to object to being called that in a workplace then called you that based on that defense, what would you do?”

I personally wouldn’t give a fuck, but if I did- “slut” is a negative word. It is an offensive term. You still haven’t explained how the word “man” is comparable to any of these other words.

“Its a heinous insult to call trans women men.”

but why???? Can you answer my question? I think it’s a heinous insult to call trans women women, do you agree? If not- wouldn’t this just be a difference of opinion, rather than an insult? Why is it an insult to call someone who is in fact an adult male human an adult male human?

“It’s a hostile work environment”

🙄

“and the idea that we just need to cope or leave basically means we have no recourse for harassment.”

So, what you’re saying here is that the people who feel uncomfortable with referring to you as a woman or with female language should have no choice but to have their speech compelled to make you feel good? Are we allowed to go to HR and claim harassment because you force us to call you she and her and a woman? Is that how this works? Why is it that what you prefer is fair and right, but what others prefer isn’t?

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Also- pretty sure the word “faggot” is only used for men, so I find it odd that you’d be less offended by a word that is pretty much calling you a gay man...

Gay guys are the least evil type of guy so it’s less of an insult. Plus I spent time living as a gay guy and I’ve been called it many times so I’m used to it I guess.

It’s prima fascia an insult to call trans women men. It disrespects their identities, it’s used to inflict distress and invite discrimination, it’s open mockery under the guise of “truth”, it simply is in every way and insult to call a trans woman a man.

I think it’s a heinous insult to call trans women women, do you agree? If not- wouldn’t this just be a difference of opinion, rather than an insult?

In what way? Trans women aren’t hurt or offended by being called this. The only explaination I see would be you consider in an insult to you because you consider trans women lesser than you.

So, what you’re saying here is that the people who feel uncomfortable with referring to you as a woman or with female language should have no choice but to have their speech compelled to make you feel good?

Or use neutral terms of just my name or just not talk to me. They need call me nothing

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

“Gay guys are the least evil type of guy so it’s less of an insult.”

This makes no sense. If the word “man” is an insult, I shouldn’t matter what type of man you’re being called.

“Plus I spent time living as a gay guy and I’ve been called it many times so I’m used to it I guess.”

But not used to being called a man?

“It’s prima fascia an insult to call trans women men. It disrespects their identities, it’s used to inflict distress and invite discrimination, it’s open mockery under the guise of “truth”, it simply is in every way and insult to call a trans woman a man.”

Their identity disrespects women. It inflicts distress. It invites misogyny. It’s open mockery of the female sex under the guise of “identity”. It simply is in every way an insult to females allover the world.

“In what way? Trans women aren’t hurt or offended by being called this.”

Women are hurt by transwomen being called this.

“The only explaination I see would be you consider in an insult to you because you consider trans women lesser than you.”

Lmao no. I don’t consider males lesser than me. I consider them males and thus not women.

“Or use neutral terms of just my name or just not talk to me. They need call me nothing”

You have yet to explain how a word that means adult male human is not neutral.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

This makes no sense. If the word “man” is an insult, I shouldn’t matter what type of man you’re being called.

Much as being called a nice man would be slightly less insulting than just man. Still an insult but not as bothersome.

But not used to being called a man?

Apparently not.

It’s open mockery of the female sex under the guise of “identity”

It inflicts distress.

If it doesn’t it isn’t used with the purpose to hurt. When you call a trans woman a man it is to hurt her.

So you admit you think trans women are lesser Than you then?

You have yet to explain how a word that means adult male human is not Neutral

Then what was this? It’s prima fascia an insult to call trans women men. It disrespects their identities, it’s used to inflict distress and invite discrimination, it’s open mockery under the guise of “truth”, it simply is in every way and insult to call a trans woman a man

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

“Much as being called a nice man would be slightly less insulting than just man. Still an insult but not as bothersome.”

So I can say transwomen are men but they’re nice men? That’s okay? Someone can say “transwomen who like men are faggots” and you think that’s acceptable? But calling a male adult human simply a male adult human is horrible?

“But not used to being called a man? Apparently not.”

I think it’s alarming that you’d accept being called a slur more readily than being referred to with a neutral and honest term. But you do you.

“If it doesn’t it isn’t used with the purpose to hurt. When you call a trans woman a man it is to hurt her.”

Didn’t know you could read minds! Here I thought it was used to be accurate and speak honestly. It hurts me when you call transwomen “her”. Can you stop? If you don’t it’s harassment, according to you. If you continue to use “her” to refer to transwomen, you’re now doing it to hurt me, right?

“So you admit you think trans women are lesser Than you then?”

I admit that they are males. And that males can’t be women. Doesn’t mean they are lesser than me. It means they are the opposite sex.

“Then what was this? It’s prima fascia an insult to call trans women men. It disrespects their identities, it’s used to inflict distress and invite discrimination, it’s open mockery under the guise of “truth”, it simply is in every way and insult to call a trans woman a man”

prima facie adjective Definition of prima facie (Entry 2 of 2) 1 : true, valid, or sufficient at first impression : APPARENT the theory … gives a prima facie solution — R. J. Butler 2 : SELF-EVIDENT 3 : legally sufficient to establish a fact or a case unless disproved prima facie evidence

So... it’s true and valid to call transwomen men? And yet you’re saying it’s insulting? I’m more confused than ever.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

So I can say transwomen are men but they’re nice men? That’s okay? Someone can say “transwomen who like men are faggots” and you think that’s acceptable?

Hardly okay but better than man.

Didn’t know you could read minds! Here I thought it was used to be accurate and speak honestly. It hurts me when you call transwomen “her”. Can you stop? If you don’t it’s harassment, according to you. If you continue to use “her” to refer to transwomen, you’re now doing it to hurt me, right?

We’ve discussed before that there’s a difference between the effect a word has on the Target and on others. I’m not rehashing that.

I admit that they are males. And that males can’t be women. Doesn’t mean they are lesser than me. It means they are the opposite sex.

Then how is it an insult to you if I am called a woman?

I said it was prima fascia insulting. Self evidently an insult even on first impression to call a trans woman a man.