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[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Trans men have dysphoria (meaning discomfort with sex characteristics) so they transition. Also, trans men try to look more like men where butches try to look like masculine women.

Some trans men don't medically transition for a number of reasons. They can't afford it, or the side effects of testosterone are a few reasons.

[–]worried19[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

So in your view, only physical dysphoria would count, not social?

Also, trans men try to look more like men where butches try to look like masculine women.

What is the difference? Visually speaking, a pre-everything trans man and a butch lesbian are indistinguishable.

Some trans men don't medically transition for a number of reasons.

Would you still consider them men if they do not have male bodies and due to lack of hormone use cannot be seen or treated as men by society?

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

What is the difference? Visually speaking, a pre-everything trans man and a butch lesbian are indistinguishable.

Yea but a trans men may opt for more medical intervention to look more manly. Also, butches don't have beards.

[–]worried19[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

May, but according to most of QT, they don't necessarily have to. What if they're not on testosterone yet or don't even want to go on testosterone?

There's no visual difference between the two otherwise. Both butch women and trans men wear men's clothes and have men's haircuts.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yes but a butch woman isn't willing to go past a certain extent. Butch women have shorter limits.

[–]worried19[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Well, some butch women do get mastectomies and go on low-dose T.

If the mark of being a trans man is willingness to go "all the way," what about those trans men who don't want to?