Both: What if we reframed the issue as "AFAB rights", "AFAB spaces", etc?

submitted by luckystar from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Transmen are included by radfem support for abortion access, birth control, affordable healthcare, condemnation of rape culture and rape apologists, and everything else aside from radfems pretending sex isn t real.

If transmen choose to remove themselves from feminism because it acknowledges where female oppression actually comes from, it’s not radfems being exclusive. It’s them being so distanced from reality that they cannot accept any support that uses the words woman or female. They exclude themselves.

Instead of bending over backwards with newspeak we need to stick to our guns and stop catering to the gender special crowd.

[–]Omina_SentenziosaSarcastic Ovalord 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Preach. Before the sub went down, we had several threads about how trans natal females didn't feel included in our feminism because we don't cater to their identity. Nobody is forcing them to join us, if they don't like that we consider them women, they are free to look elsewhere: I am sure the inclusive feminism trans natal males created will be a welcoming space for them and their biological needs, especially given that it's not exactly an uncommon sentiment that trans natal females feel talked over by trans natal males. 🙄 I can't wait to see a trans natal female trying to talk about periods, pregnancy and abortion and have a trans natal male educating "him" on those topics.

My personal favorite thread on the inclusion of trans natal females in radical feminism, however, was by a poster who made a long speech about the ways in which we could be more inclusive of trans natal females. Except in every comment they wrote there was a TMAM dogma thrown in. Why the fuck would women who hate being women to the point that they call themselves men want to be included in a movement about women is beyond me.

Also, I just refuse to play semantic games to cater to gender specials at this point. A debate topic that I have seen often is that it's wrong to stop using preferred pronouns and labels for the ones who are bad: I completely agree, the concept is idiotic no matter what, so I refuse to pander to it for anyone. Why should we make an exception for trans natal females and prove that there are times in which language can be twisted? Calling them men is less dangerous than calling men women, but the idea behind both is the same, and accepting one automatically validates the other.

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Oh man I think I remember that massive diatribe about including transmen by using the magic slogans every third sentence. She was always banging on about stupid stuff. Reminded me of cirlingmyownvoid or the special one who seriously went by xer. Maybe the same person?

It’s made clearer and clearer by tra that they don’t want acceptance, they want unquestioning acquiescence and obedience. Doesn’t matter if it hurts all women, these coddled babies have very important whims and zero ability to handle anything that isn’t immediate satisfaction.

[–]littlerbear 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

The whole thing about how trans men should be housed with men in prisons because...gender was something else, but not in a good way. You're right about how many trans people and their allies want capitulation, not acceptance.

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Oh lawd the insistence that being misgendered is basically a war crime and everyone else in prison will respect their gender identity was something else.

[–]littlerbear 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It's almost like they've never met men. Men treat men like crap too. It's not like jail is some brotherhood of rebels. A lot of these people must be very young and sheltered.

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Not surprised. From what I’ve seen it is mostly an argument from teenagers. They’ve got no idea what the implications of their stance are.