ALL: Can trans folks be TERFs?

submitted by Elly from (self.GCdebatesQT)

Got called a TERF today and it's kinda bugging me, ngl. Like, sure, I want female liberation, women to be allowed to participate in clinical trials, trans women to count as trans women in diversity quotas, and trans women to have their own space in a talking panel instead of taking up the space of an adult female human, but y'know...

Does that make me a TERF? Maybe moderating a subreddit for a while does. 🤷‍♀️

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[–]worried19 23 insightful - 4 fun23 insightful - 3 fun24 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

Apparently anyone can be a TERF, even trans people.

It's scary how open discourse isn't even tolerated now. No matter how nice or moderate someone is, even the mildest dissent from the party line is forbidden.

[–]FlanJam 20 insightful - 2 fun20 insightful - 1 fun21 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

"Terf" is tossed around so haphazardly its hard to take it seriously anymore. Even some of my friends, who aren't involved in the discourse AT ALL, were called terfs for making lesbian jokes. Its ridiculous. And I suspect it makes it difficult to talk about real transphobia when there's so many false positives.

[–]Elly[S] 13 insightful - 2 fun13 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Truth. I want trans pride to mean something, not be a bunch of folks who’ve internalized gender roles as if they’re sacrosanct. Trans folks are so close to being able to say “fuck gender” that we’re eagerly getting fucked by gender.

[–]Wrencer 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It doesn't mean anything anymore.

[–]emptiedriver 13 insightful - 3 fun13 insightful - 2 fun14 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

I'm afraid pretty much everything you've said is very standard TERF nowadays. Even the acronym is not claiming some kind of hate, but just being an "exclusionary feminist", so if you are going make a distinction between trans women and women, then that's the TE right there... and I think plenty of them think they're being too nice to give us the RF at all. Any distinction is hatred, which really does end up meaning recognizing sex is real is hatred, so when they come back saying "oh of course sex is real, jeezus" the conversation becomes very belabored. But, I'd be willing to have it if people would engage!

[–]divingrightintowork 13 insightful - 2 fun13 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

It's a very low bar to be a TERF these days. If you don't support ripping the ovaries out of a 3 year old who takes a barrette out of their hair, you're a TERF. I'm half joking, but look up Diane Ehrensaft - barrette, no joke. Also look up Diane Ehrensaft and Satanic Ritual abuse.

[–]Tarrock 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Just want to remind you that the word TERF didn't exist 6 years ago.

[–]branks4nothing 12 insightful - 3 fun12 insightful - 2 fun13 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

It was coined in 2008, and not (as is often claimed) as a self-referential term, but by a feminist blogger Tigtog who characterized her 'terfs' as unethical and callous for not wanting trans women at Michfest.

[–]terfy_delight 12 insightful - 2 fun12 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I take it as a badge of honor now. Who knows what the word even means. It's just a signifier to those in the mob, that you aren't part of the mob and you deserve to be treated like inhuman garbage. Anyone who says something they don't like can be a terf.

[–][deleted] 11 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

I think only AFAB trans people can be TERFs, because RFs don't believe AMAB people can be RF. But then if you believe in innate gender, you aren't RF. But TRAs think fuckin Graham Lineham is a TERF so. 🤷🏼

[–]SilverSlippers 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

According to twitter - yes. Anyone who questions current gender rhetoric is a TERF even if they aren't hateful or don't exclude trans people. Oppose giving hormones to kids? TERF. Want female-only spaces? TERF Continue to like for follow a known TERF? Or hell even sign the same agreement (i.e. Harper article)? TERF

[–]DistantGlimmer 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

There was someone who posted a while ago who I liked who called themselves a "trans-exclusionary radical transwoman". That was pretty clever. When I asked them about it they said they'd been called a T*RF on multiple occasions by people who knew they were a transwoman. I think they will call anyone that who is sane and refuses to follow in lockstep with trans ideology.

I certainly get called it a lot even though men can't be radfems. Other than the fact that it's a slur used to bully women I sort of take it as a badge of honor to be called that by them.

[–]Rae 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I guess from the standpoint of people who call other people TERFs, yes trans people can be TERFs.

Which comes across as a different sort of sad to me. Trans people being called "trans exclusionary" for wanting their own spaces separate from women, for wanting to be counted in diversity quotas, etc... for essentially wanting trans people to be recognized as their own distinct group with needs and goals different than women. It's not being "trans exclusionary" to want trans people to have these things.

[–]questioningtw 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

oh absolutely! I have heard trans people like Buck Angel, Contrapoints, Blaire White and others called TERFS. because gasp They think you have to actually have dysphoria and transition to be trans. I honestly think if most trans people where like the ones above, there would be way less TERFS.

[–]leparsdon 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Well I mean, it would help for them if people actually went through all of that to be considered trans I guess. Nowadays its quirky to be a pan-aromantic-nonbinary-trans-demigirl

[–]questioningtw 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I wish they would realize being a pan aromantic non binary trans demigirl doesn't make you more interesting....It actually makes you sound incredibly dull and self absorbed. At least with the goth stuff in the 90s they had music and poetry to go with it!

[–]luckystar 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The word TERF has basically lost all meaning. Ironically the thing that opened me up to GC thought was being called "TERF", not knowing what the word meant, and googling around for more information. I definitely went into it thinking the dreaded TERFs would be appalling to me but then I found they actually have many valid concerns - I may not be 100% GC but I definitely think they are maligned far too much.

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If TERF actually meant something, I’m not sure if any male people could be TERFs because we can’t be radical feminists. So like trans natal females could be TERFs I guess? TERF as a slur though can applied to everyone. I’ve been called it (although generally from people who didn’t realize I was trans).

[–]MatH0 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

in the TRA logic, absolutely every person, including trans people too can be 'TERFS', just by disagreeing with their views.

[–]Wrencer 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

A lot of "truscum" are considered terfy

[–]Elly[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

true. :( But we're not... that.