Finland's result on its UBI experiment: people don't shirk work. And it increases trust, health & wellbeing

submitted by Orangutan from thealternative.org.uk

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[–]jtriangle 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I think that UBI might be necessary when the robots get good enough to unemploy the bottom 2/3 of the workforce, at least for long enough to re-educate people where it's reasonable.

It flies in the face of my overarching political ideology, I just don't see an easy way out with how things are going with automation. The age we're headed into is without precedence.

[–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Who's going to pay for those robots? The rich would rather keep their money and power and if they built robots it would be for robots that bring them more wealth or services, not robots to serve the poor.

[–]Vigte 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Truthfully, I like the idea - I really do - people deserve some help after everything they've been through last 19 years - but it just won't work long-term within the frame work of Darwinian Capitalism.

Lots of articles also talking about how it isn't as great as it seems. There hasn't been enough time to analyze the results, plus the test wasn't long-term enough. Plus the test's publicity and attention may have staved off some of the ill effects - in hopes it happening, let me explain:

In the end the UBI level off at 1$ more than poverty and all the prices will increase, because of a "market flush with cash".

5$ buys you 5, 1$ items.

Suddenly everyone has 6 dollars, an increase of 20%. What are the odds business will hike prices 25% minimum? Quite good I would say - especially for items that people MUST have: food, medicine, etc.

5$, 5, 1$ items 6$, 4, 1.25$ items

As such your 5$ that bought you 5 items, turns into 6$ buying you 4 items.

Now keep in mind this kind of "leap stage" from 5 items to 4, may not occur EVERY "minimum wealth increase" (be it UBI or min. wage increase, etc), but it WILL happen inevitably. Anyone who has seen min-wage increase in their area can attest to this.

Until inflation and unregulated mark up are addressed, this will only lead to more severe exploitation of the population for the profit of "business", just like everything else in this world.

To make it appear good, you probably won't see any of the price increase scam in this experiment (on purpose) - let it become "law" and see how fast that changes, when business is free to fuck you, 21st century style.

I'll eat my own beard if I'm wrong.

[–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Yes and No.

UBI needs to be about much more than just markets, economies, employment, etc etc etc. It needs to be a full spectrum system and it needs to be embraced fully and there need to be protections from naysayers and exploitation, not to mention future cut-offs.

UBI needed to be implemented yesterday everywhere on Earth, but it's also potentially a trap.

UBI in the USA is impossible if they can't even "afford" to provide universal health care like every other civilized nation. Shame.

[–]Vigte 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Exactly - it can be "utopian" or a trap - if implemented today by the people in charge, it'll be a damn trap.

Besides, before even considering UBI, (good people) would have to figure out what a dollar is worth anymore, a country needs to accurately get its M0, M1, M2, M3 sorted the fuck out and figure out a replacement for GDP - then it can start implementing policy.

Until then, obligatory

[–]jtriangle 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Affording it may be non optional. They're just printing money willy nilly anyway, so they'd be able to sustain it for at least awhile in the US because global markets are so dependant on the dollar. It'd be effectively taxing other countries and paying people with that revenue.

It's unlikely to work long-term though, and we'd probably see a massive move away from the dollar if it ever were to happen.

[–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

"Non optional"? You mean they do it or everyone dies of starvation?

They'd rather let folks die than feed them and let them organize, educate themselves and rise up against the great hoarders.

[–]jtriangle 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The last thing you want is the unwashed masses starving to death and getting crazy. It's not altruistic, it's to keep everyone under control.

[–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

That's why they're killing them off slowly with more brainwashing propaganda than ever.

Don't forget to get your very safe and effective vaccination and 5G and low-fat processed food before going to your wage-slave job to keep you in debt rather than organizing and rising up. Also, be sure to hate "them" but never the ruling class.